Misleading information from TSB about options at end of Fixed rate 2 year ISA

fuzzzzy

wmb194 said:

Middle_of_the_Road said:

Alexland said:

I do feel sorry for businesses that suffer ever growing public expectations of duties that are not in their commercial interests. I get that there's a basic obligation to treat customers fairly but is it really their job to ensure customers are aware of the options with their competitors? They are not charities or public funded education bodies they are just companies that have offerings that you can take or leave.

No it's not. It is their job to make customers aware of options, with their own products. 
The simple fact is...TSB failed to clearly communicate the option of transferring a maturing TSB ISA.

 But why did the customer choose TSB anyway? Did they really think that TSB is the only option? How far does the spoon feeding have to go? 

This is the sort of nannying that leads bodies like the FCA to say things like owning shares in individual companies should be banned for retail investors because we're all too stupid to understand the risks and concomitantly are people too stupid to be able to do basic research to understand how Isas work? If offering Isas becomes a burdensome hassle then companies will just stop offering them.

Do you not read comments on this forum day in day out from people clearly not able to understand how ISAs work?

Someone just starting out saving for the first time may find it difficult to understand.

It is a simple enough thing for any institution to include a comment in their maturity options to make it clear that one of those options is to transfer their ISA to another provider.

booneruk

Where does the advice need to stop? Should they be saying you'll earn better returns in the long term by switching to a stocks and shares ISA? Should they be saying you might double your money by taking it all out and gambling red on the roulette?

I agree with the poster a few above. It's depressing how nannying is demanded these days.

wmb194

fuzzzzy said:

wmb194 said:

Middle_of_the_Road said:

Alexland said:

I do feel sorry for businesses that suffer ever growing public expectations of duties that are not in their commercial interests. I get that there's a basic obligation to treat customers fairly but is it really their job to ensure customers are aware of the options with their competitors? They are not charities or public funded education bodies they are just companies that have offerings that you can take or leave.

No it's not. It is their job to make customers aware of options, with their own products. 
The simple fact is...TSB failed to clearly communicate the option of transferring a maturing TSB ISA.

 But why did the customer choose TSB anyway? Did they really think that TSB is the only option? How far does the spoon feeding have to go? 

This is the sort of nannying that leads bodies like the FCA to say things like owning shares in individual companies should be banned for retail investors because we're all too stupid to understand the risks and concomitantly are people too stupid to be able to do basic research to understand how Isas work? If offering Isas becomes a burdensome hassle then companies will just stop offering them.

Do you not read comments on this forum day in day out from people clearly not able to understand how ISAs work?

Someone just starting out saving for the first time may find it difficult to understand.

It is a simple enough thing for any institution to include a comment in their maturity options to make it clear that one of those options is to transfer their ISA to another provider.

Yes, I do, but they're not bullying the providers and the FCA into spoon feeding them every possible permutation and getting angry when they don't. They come on the internet and ask for help.

fuzzzzy

wmb194 said:

fuzzzzy said:

wmb194 said:

Middle_of_the_Road said:

Alexland said:

I do feel sorry for businesses that suffer ever growing public expectations of duties that are not in their commercial interests. I get that there's a basic obligation to treat customers fairly but is it really their job to ensure customers are aware of the options with their competitors? They are not charities or public funded education bodies they are just companies that have offerings that you can take or leave.

No it's not. It is their job to make customers aware of options, with their own products. 
The simple fact is...TSB failed to clearly communicate the option of transferring a maturing TSB ISA.

 But why did the customer choose TSB anyway? Did they really think that TSB is the only option? How far does the spoon feeding have to go? 

This is the sort of nannying that leads bodies like the FCA to say things like owning shares in individual companies should be banned for retail investors because we're all too stupid to understand the risks and concomitantly are people too stupid to be able to do basic research to understand how Isas work? If offering Isas becomes a burdensome hassle then companies will just stop offering them.

Do you not read comments on this forum day in day out from people clearly not able to understand how ISAs work?

Someone just starting out saving for the first time may find it difficult to understand.

It is a simple enough thing for any institution to include a comment in their maturity options to make it clear that one of those options is to transfer their ISA to another provider.

Yes, I do, but they're not bullying the providers and the FCA into spoon feeding them every possible permutation and getting angry when they don't. They come on the internet and ask for help.

But as the OP pointed out the maturity letters stating "that if I fail to re-invest my ISA in a TSB product I "will lose the tax free benefits of keeping it in an ISA."" could be a tad misleading to some people.

wmb194

fuzzzzy said:

wmb194 said:

fuzzzzy said:

wmb194 said:

Middle_of_the_Road said:

Alexland said:

I do feel sorry for businesses that suffer ever growing public expectations of duties that are not in their commercial interests. I get that there's a basic obligation to treat customers fairly but is it really their job to ensure customers are aware of the options with their competitors? They are not charities or public funded education bodies they are just companies that have offerings that you can take or leave.

No it's not. It is their job to make customers aware of options, with their own products. 
The simple fact is...TSB failed to clearly communicate the option of transferring a maturing TSB ISA.

 But why did the customer choose TSB anyway? Did they really think that TSB is the only option? How far does the spoon feeding have to go? 

This is the sort of nannying that leads bodies like the FCA to say things like owning shares in individual companies should be banned for retail investors because we're all too stupid to understand the risks and concomitantly are people too stupid to be able to do basic research to understand how Isas work? If offering Isas becomes a burdensome hassle then companies will just stop offering them.

Do you not read comments on this forum day in day out from people clearly not able to understand how ISAs work?

Someone just starting out saving for the first time may find it difficult to understand.

It is a simple enough thing for any institution to include a comment in their maturity options to make it clear that one of those options is to transfer their ISA to another provider.

Yes, I do, but they're not bullying the providers and the FCA into spoon feeding them every possible permutation and getting angry when they don't. They come on the internet and ask for help.

But as the OP pointed out the maturity letters stating "that if I fail to re-invest my ISA in a TSB product I "will lose the tax free benefits of keeping it in an ISA."" could be a tad misleading to some people.

The letter wasn't quoted verbatim so we don't actually know this. The OP quoted, '..."will lose the tax free benefits of keeping it in an ISA."' which looks a lot like part of the last paragraph in the screenshot below and relates to if you withdraw the money from the Isa.

To think that the only option to keep your Isa is that you have to reinvest it with TSB would be to ignore the context of TSB existing in a universe of banks, building societies and stockbrokers/investment platforms that also offer Isas.

https://www.tsb.co.uk/savings/fixed-rate-cash-isa-fixed-bonds-maturity.html

refluxer

In some ways, I can see both sides of this discussion. On the one hand, I can appreciate that it's not in a bank's best interests to actively offer options that would mean they'd lose a customer's money however, on the other hand, they must accept that cash ISAs aren't as straight-forward as the equivalent non-ISA savings accounts and (in the example of TSB's list of maturity options posted above) you can see why anyone who isn't fully savvy with the ins and outs of how cash ISAs work might be lead to believe that those 3 options are the only options they have.

In this case, I don't think TSB are actively seeking to mislead customers, but I do think that omitting that important option isn't the right thing to do. It would be simple enough to resolve, with something along the lines of 'Alternatively, you may wish to transfer your funds to another ISA provider' added to the end of option 1.

To contrast with the way TSB do this, this is Shawbrook's equivalent list of cash ISA maturity options...

Your maturity options

It’s time to tell us what you’d like to do next. You can choose one of the following options.

• Transfer your full balance to one or more of our other ISA accounts (You can review our accounts below and on Shawbrook.co.uk/savings)

• Transfer your full balance to another ISA provider

• Transfer part of your balance to one or more of our other ISA accounts. Withdraw the remaining balance to your nominated account

• Transfer part of your balance to another ISA provider. Withdraw the remaining balance to your nominated account

• Withdraw your full balance to your nominated account

and later they give instructions on how to transfer away...

How to transfer all or part your balance to a new ISA provider

Step 1 - Ask your new provider to arrange the transfer

Step 2 - Your new provider will request the funds from us when your account matures

Step 3 - When we receive the request, we’ll send the funds to your new provider. This takes up to 15 days if you’re transferring to a cash

 

eskbanker

Perhaps OP will clarify whether the letter uses the same wording, or similar, as that quoted above, as it quite clearly says "we want to give you a few easy options for your money" and then after showing three 'at a glance' continues on to identify another option, i.e. the 'do nothing' one:

If we don't hear from you

We’ll automatically move your savings into a Cash ISA Saver account...

so the three options in the above excerpt obviously aren't being presented as a complete comprehensive definition of all possible alternatives.

OP did also drip-feed that their complaint included "both letters state that if I fail to re-invest my ISA in a TSB product I "will lose the tax free benefits of keeping it in an ISA."" but the above wording doesn't say it in those terms, so maybe the letter is phrased differently.

Vember

From the letter from TSB to me, dated 7th October 2024, there are only two options. 

eskbanker

Vember said:

From the letter from TSB to me, dated 7th October 2024, there are only two options. 

Nothing else on page 2?  Seems odd that it doesn't cover the same ground as the page on their website, to which they direct you in the letter? 

Vember

Page 2 has headings "If we don't hear from you", "Add a bonus rate to your cash ISA Saver" "other ways to get in touch" and "We're here to help."