Mirror Wills or Mutual Wills

Flugelhorn

critchley said:

I think it's pretty clear that because he remortgaged this flat in his own name I got knocked out of it!  So it's all looking a bit bleak I think you'll agree.

no I don't agree - whatever happened in 2004, the CURRENT state of affairs is that it looks like you both owned it and as tenants in common

Keep_pedalling

critchley said:

Keep_pedalling said:

You are not responsable for paying IHT the estate is. Please take legal advice as a matter of urgency. If your worse fears that the will is invalid are true (and I think that is probable not correct, then you need to know as soon as possible. If it is invalid then you don’t need to do anything as you won’t be the executor so you can leave that to others. If it is valid then you can opt to pay IHT in instalments which means you only need to find 10% for the first instalment. The rest can be paid once you have sold the downstairs flat.

But it says that IHT has to be paid before you can get a grant of Probate.  

And yes FlorayG I am the Executor along with his sister who has just spent a whole year dealing with her other brother's estate and said she doesn't want to get involved and will sign a form to say this.  Can't say I blame her, she's had a nightmare trying to sell his property and being let down over and over.  My Partner hasn't had any contact with his children for many years and deliberately left what I thought was anything that was left after my death or if I predeceased him between my son and grandson and several charities but I accidentally referred to it as the Trust Fund ... duh.

The point I was trying to make is that you have to establish the validity of the will before you go plunging into the administration. Over the weekend do a little research into suitable local solicitors first thing Monday morning get yourself an appointment with one to get advice on how to proceed and to clarify the position own the ownership of you home, I don’t really see how you could be removed from ownership without you signing it away.

critchley

bobster2 said:

critchley said:

I think it's pretty clear that because he remortgaged this flat in his own name I got knocked out of it!  So it's all looking a bit bleak I think you'll agree.

But the most recent version of the title you've seen (2022) says you are tenants in common. 

I downloaded it in 2022, it didn't have a date on the actual copy document so was probably pre 2004 when we first owned the flat together.  Just found the date on the one where we were both on it and it was 1983 so definitely got superceded by the one where I am not a co-owner.  Got an appointment to see a solicitor on Monday so if the will isn't valid and I'm not even a co-owner I haven't a leg to stand on and I'll have nothing.  As somebody said, his undeserving kids will get a massive pay day.  

mattojgb

critchley said:

I downloaded copies of the Title Register in 2022 (I paid for it) and it says that that the Proprietors are him and me.  This is what made me think that we were tenenat's in common because there was also a clause that said "RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court" which was the way I found out that we were tenants in common and not joint tenants.  They weren't dated but could have been when my partner moved in with me and bought a share in the property after we'd been living together for a while.  Probably in the 80s.  We'd been together for 40 years.

But then we had his old briefcase out today and there was a formal looking copy of the Completion of Registration which clearly states that only he is the Registered Proprietor and the only mention of me is in a small clause that says RESTRICTION: Except under an order of the registrar no disposition by the proprietor of the land is to be registered without the consent of XXX XXXX (me) of (address).  It's dated 27th April 2004.

I presume the one on official paper might have been when he remortgaged this property in order to buy the downstairs flat.

I think it's pretty clear that because he remortgaged this flat in his own name I got knocked out of it!  So it's all looking a bit bleak I think you'll agree.

The second restriction above is a little unusual. I think it indicates you have a beneficial interest, i.e. are part owner. Also if there was a mortgage then there would be a similar restriction but with the mortgagee as the consenting party. Did you finish paying the mortgage off around this time (2004)?

I'm sure the version you downloaded in 2022 is the more up to date. I know it will say that it's not official or something like that, but you can ignore that for your purposes.

Spendless

Surely if you start out as joint owners you cant change ownership to single without you signing the paperwork to change it?

That is an aspect I would be fetching up with the solicitor. If it has been changed without your knowledge then how? 

critchley

Flugelhorn said:

critchley said:

I think it's pretty clear that because he remortgaged this flat in his own name I got knocked out of it!  So it's all looking a bit bleak I think you'll agree.

no I don't agree - whatever happened in 2004, the CURRENT state of affairs is that it looks like you both owned it and as tenants in common

But he remortgaged it in 2004 and I found out that the copies I downloaded were from when we first got together in the 1980s so the most current document shows him as Registered Proprietor. Also, it's quite likely that I did authorise him to be the sole Proprietor because of him getting the mortgage for the other flat in a hurry. I don't remember.  We didn't pay that mortgage off til years later when he had a heart attack and had Critical Illness cover which paid off all the mortgage that we had at the time.

Flugelhorn

critchley said:

Flugelhorn said:

critchley said:

I think it's pretty clear that because he remortgaged this flat in his own name I got knocked out of it!  So it's all looking a bit bleak I think you'll agree.

no I don't agree - whatever happened in 2004, the CURRENT state of affairs is that it looks like you both owned it and as tenants in common

But he remortgaged it in 2004 and I found out that the copies I downloaded were from when we first got together in the 1980s so the most current document shows him as Registered Proprietor.

so have a go at downloading it again to get the most up to date version of the registry https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

bobster2

critchley said:

But he remortgaged it in 2004 and I found out that the copies I downloaded were from when we first got together in the 1980s so the most current document shows him as Registered Proprietor. Also, it's quite likely that I did authorise him to be the sole Proprietor because of him getting the mortgage for the other flat in a hurry. I don't remember.  We didn't pay that mortgage off til years later when he had a heart attack and had Critical Illness cover which paid off all the mortgage that we had at the time.

The fact that the Land Registry only seem to have a version of the title showing you as tenants in common - would seems to indicate that at no point was signed documentation submitted to the Land Registry to remove you as a proprietor.

critchley

bobster2 said:

critchley said:

But he remortgaged it in 2004 and I found out that the copies I downloaded were from when we first got together in the 1980s so the most current document shows him as Registered Proprietor. Also, it's quite likely that I did authorise him to be the sole Proprietor because of him getting the mortgage for the other flat in a hurry. I don't remember.  We didn't pay that mortgage off til years later when he had a heart attack and had Critical Illness cover which paid off all the mortgage that we had at the time.

The fact that the Land Registry only seem to have a version of the title showing you as tenants in common - would seems to indicate that at no point was signed documentation submitted to the Land Registry to remove you as a proprietor.

The deed that I found in his document case was an official one on their headed paper and was dated 2004 so that is the one that is most up to date and legal.  It obviously superceded the one I got downloads of.  It's very confusing on that Land Registry site because they give you all the information and fees to be paid but I can't see where you actually apply for the documents.  I keep going round in circles.  It keeps taking me back to the information part.

RAS

Are you in England? @Land_Registry?