Mirror Wills or Mutual Wills

RAS

Keep_pedalling said:

FlorayG said:

Who are named as the trustees? You are clearly the beneficiary, however, a will can't just say what his does without actually setting up a trust. This looks like you are both trustee and beneficiary which I don't think is allowed. Was this will written by an actual solicitor?
If no trust was set up it looks to me like you inherit everything

Based on the OPs previous thread this was a DIY will which explains the odd wording and the issues involved. I just hope the whole thing is not invalid. Urgent professional advice needs to be taken. 

Ouch. That'd be challenging if they were married or civil partners, without more so. 

If the son has seen it, he'd be sensible to get proper legal advice. Even more so the OP.

critchley

FlorayG said:

Keep_pedalling said:

FlorayG said:

Who are named as the trustees? You are clearly the beneficiary, however, a will can't just say what his does without actually setting up a trust. This looks like you are both trustee and beneficiary which I don't think is allowed. Was this will written by an actual solicitor?
If no trust was set up it looks to me like you inherit everything

Based on the OPs previous thread this was a DIY will which explains the odd wording and the issues involved. I just hope the whole thing is not invalid. Urgent professional advice needs to be taken. 

Oh dear. As far as I can make out then, if the will is valid then Critchley gets everything. If it's invalid she gets nothing and her partner's son gets everything. Fingers crossed for you OP. Let us know

Thank you for your help and advice.  I am having nightmares here that I really messed up and will end up with nothing!  His kids have had nothing to do with him for many years which is why he specifically didn't want them to inherit anything and left his "share" to charity.  I don't seem to have a leg to stand on.  They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and how right they are.  I can't sleep nights for worry about the implications.  I realise now that saying it was " in trust " was wrong and I should have just said what needed to be done after my death.  The way things are turning out that won't be long.  I am poor health and this is killing me literally.

I will definitely be seeking legal advice asap.  If his kids get it all that goes against everything he intended and leave me penniless and homeless I presume although I would still retain my half share in the property.  What a nightmare.

poseidon1

Keep_pedalling said:

critchley said:

It says "I give all my estate both real and personal movable and immovable whatsoever and wheresoever to the said XXX XXXX (me) in Trust for her for her use and enjoyment during her lifetime to keep sell or dispose of in any way she sees fit and after her death the proceeds thereof shall be divided into two equal shares 

One equal share to be divided between my son and grandson and the other to various charities.

I'm not sure what that means so I will have to get it explained to me unless anyone knows what my position is exactly.

That is rather unusual wording, and does not sound like an IPDI trust as it seems you can do what you want with the capital. I would strongly recommend you take professional advice preferably from a STEP solicitor who can advise on family trusts. 

Sadly looking at the OPs previous thread ( see below)  she prepared and executed the will herself, in the erroneous belief that having previously worked as an legal secretary in a solicitors's offiice she felt qualified to do so. 

A STEP solicitor would now have the tricky task of trying to elicit from her , whether she ever intended for their respective share of the home to be placed in an IPDI trust   especially as her responses here suggests she may not have known what that was at that time or how such a structure would assist in their respective estate planning. 

The fact that she freely admits  on this forum, to not knowing what her own will drafting actually means, does not bode well for how a meeting with a wills specialist might proceed. A salutary lesson for those who are minded to conduct their own wills and estate planning, without appropriate advice.

Hopefully, and notwithstanding its vagueness, the will may still be found to be a valid disposition of the deceased's estate. However, since we should assume she drafted  her own will  in similar terms  ( as a mirror image), a lawyer will additionally  need to advise as to its clarity and validity at this point in time.


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81135275#Comment_81135275

Emmia

poseidon1 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

critchley said:

It says "I give all my estate both real and personal movable and immovable whatsoever and wheresoever to the said XXX XXXX (me) in Trust for her for her use and enjoyment during her lifetime to keep sell or dispose of in any way she sees fit and after her death the proceeds thereof shall be divided into two equal shares 

One equal share to be divided between my son and grandson and the other to various charities.

I'm not sure what that means so I will have to get it explained to me unless anyone knows what my position is exactly.

That is rather unusual wording, and does not sound like an IPDI trust as it seems you can do what you want with the capital. I would strongly recommend you take professional advice preferably from a STEP solicitor who can advise on family trusts. 

Sadly looking at the OPs previous thread ( see below)  she prepared and executed the will herself, in the erroneous belief that having previously worked as an legal secretary in a solicitors's offiice she felt qualified to do so. 

A STEP solicitor would now have the tricky task of trying to elicit from her , whether she ever intended for their respective share of the home to be placed in an IPDI trust   especially as her responses here suggests she may not have known what that was at that time or how such a structure would assist in their respective estate planning. 

The fact that she freely admits  on this forum, to not knowing what her own will drafting actually means, does not bode well for how a meeting with a wills specialist might proceed. A salutary lesson for those who are minded to conduct their own wills and estate planning, without appropriate advice.

Hopefully, and notwithstanding its vagueness, the will may still be found to be a valid disposition of the deceased's estate. However, since we should assume she drafted  her own will  in similar terms  ( as a mirror image), a lawyer will additionally  need to advise as to its clarity and validity at this point in time.


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81135275#Comment_81135275

I think this is also a salutory lesson on the benefits of marriage/civil partnership for those in a long relationship, as well as the importance of not going DIY on your Will even if you feel qualified. 

I'd put good money on the OP now regretting not spending the money on properly drafted wills... Saving a couple of hundred then, may cost tens of thousands now.

critchley

Emmia said:

poseidon1 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

critchley said:

It says "I give all my estate both real and personal movable and immovable whatsoever and wheresoever to the said XXX XXXX (me) in Trust for her for her use and enjoyment during her lifetime to keep sell or dispose of in any way she sees fit and after her death the proceeds thereof shall be divided into two equal shares 

One equal share to be divided between my son and grandson and the other to various charities.

I'm not sure what that means so I will have to get it explained to me unless anyone knows what my position is exactly.

That is rather unusual wording, and does not sound like an IPDI trust as it seems you can do what you want with the capital. I would strongly recommend you take professional advice preferably from a STEP solicitor who can advise on family trusts. 

Sadly looking at the OPs previous thread ( see below)  she prepared and executed the will herself, in the erroneous belief that having previously worked as an legal secretary in a solicitors's offiice she felt qualified to do so. 

A STEP solicitor would now have the tricky task of trying to elicit from her , whether she ever intended for their respective share of the home to be placed in an IPDI trust   especially as her responses here suggests she may not have known what that was at that time or how such a structure would assist in their respective estate planning. 

The fact that she freely admits  on this forum, to not knowing what her own will drafting actually means, does not bode well for how a meeting with a wills specialist might proceed. A salutary lesson for those who are minded to conduct their own wills and estate planning, without appropriate advice.

Hopefully, and notwithstanding its vagueness, the will may still be found to be a valid disposition of the deceased's estate. However, since we should assume she drafted  her own will  in similar terms  ( as a mirror image), a lawyer will additionally  need to advise as to its clarity and validity at this point in time.


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81135275#Comment_81135275

I think this is also a salutory lesson on the benefits of marriage/civil partnership for those in a long relationship, as well as the importance of not going DIY on your Will even if you feel qualified. 

I'd put good money on the OP now regretting not spending the money on properly drafted wills... Saving a couple of hundred then, may cost tens of thousands now.

Definitely.  I was looking at Deeds of Variation but I think the charities would have to agree to that and how would I go about it.  I just feel desperate at the prospect of administering a trust which sounds so complicated.  I was already having panic attacks about all the Inheritance Tax and Probate that has to be sorted out.  The terminology does sound ambiguous though because how could I use and enjoy, plus sell or dispose of property that isn't legally mine?  And I'll still have to pay the Inheritance Tax I guess.  What have I done.  Don't answer that. I already know and it's not looking good from any angle.  

I did draft my own will as a mirror Will so even more trouble.  If the Trust is valid I can't change my Will.

bobster2

critchley said:

Definitely.  I was looking at Deeds of Variation but I think the charities would have to agree to that and how would I go about it.  I just feel desperate at the prospect of administering a trust which sounds so complicated.  I was already having panic attacks about all the Inheritance Tax and Probate that has to be sorted out.  The terminology does sound ambiguous though because how could I use and enjoy, plus sell or dispose of property that isn't legally mine?  And I'll still have to pay the Inheritance Tax I guess.  What have I done.  Don't answer that. I already know and it's not looking good from any angle.  

I did draft my own will as a mirror Will so even more trouble.  If the Trust is valid I can't change my Will.

We already established in your other thread that there is likely only a small IHT bill - payable by the estate (not you) and easily covered by the the £50,000 your partner's estate is owed by his brother's estate. So that part is quite straightforward.

FlorayG

critchley said:

FlorayG said:

Keep_pedalling said:

FlorayG said:

Who are named as the trustees? You are clearly the beneficiary, however, a will can't just say what his does without actually setting up a trust. This looks like you are both trustee and beneficiary which I don't think is allowed. Was this will written by an actual solicitor?
If no trust was set up it looks to me like you inherit everything

Based on the OPs previous thread this was a DIY will which explains the odd wording and the issues involved. I just hope the whole thing is not invalid. Urgent professional advice needs to be taken. 

Oh dear. As far as I can make out then, if the will is valid then Critchley gets everything. If it's invalid she gets nothing and her partner's son gets everything. Fingers crossed for you OP. Let us know

Thank you for your help and advice.  I am having nightmares here that I really messed up and will end up with nothing!  His kids have had nothing to do with him for many years which is why he specifically didn't want them to inherit anything and left his "share" to charity.  

This doesn't agree with the will; you say the will says half to be shared between his son and grandson and here you say he doesn't want them to have anything?
Also very important - do you own half the house or don't you? Is your name on the deeds? Were you tenants in common or joint tenants? In one comment you say you have nothing of your own and in another you mention your 'half' of the house. 
You still can change your own will - if you make a simple will that says something like "I leave half my estate to X and 1/4 to Y and 1/4 to X charity" then that applies to everything YOU own and doesn't change anything in your partners bequests; also I'm 99% sure the 'trust' isn't valid anyway

Keep_pedalling

FlorayG said:

critchley said:

FlorayG said:

Keep_pedalling said:

FlorayG said:

Who are named as the trustees? You are clearly the beneficiary, however, a will can't just say what his does without actually setting up a trust. This looks like you are both trustee and beneficiary which I don't think is allowed. Was this will written by an actual solicitor?
If no trust was set up it looks to me like you inherit everything

Based on the OPs previous thread this was a DIY will which explains the odd wording and the issues involved. I just hope the whole thing is not invalid. Urgent professional advice needs to be taken. 

Oh dear. As far as I can make out then, if the will is valid then Critchley gets everything. If it's invalid she gets nothing and her partner's son gets everything. Fingers crossed for you OP. Let us know

Thank you for your help and advice.  I am having nightmares here that I really messed up and will end up with nothing!  His kids have had nothing to do with him for many years which is why he specifically didn't want them to inherit anything and left his "share" to charity.  

This doesn't agree with the will; you say the will says half to be shared between his son and grandson and here you say he doesn't want them to have anything?
Also very important - do you own half the house or don't you? Is your name on the deeds? Were you tenants in common or joint tenants? In one comment you say you have nothing of your own and in another you mention your 'half' of the house. 
You still can change your own will - if you make a simple will that says something like "I leave half my estate to X and 1/4 to Y and 1/4 to X charity" then that applies to everything YOU own and doesn't change anything in your partners bequests; also I'm 99% sure the 'trust' isn't valid anyway

I think the reference to son and GS may be the OPs son rather than her partner’s. In her other thread the OP said the home was held as joint tenants in which case the house is now hers.

I agree about the trust, I don’t think one has been created but legal advice needs to be sort especially once charities have visibility of the will they are more likely to pursue it than the her partners children.

FlorayG

Keep_pedalling said:

FlorayG said:

critchley said:

FlorayG said:

Keep_pedalling said:

FlorayG said:

Who are named as the trustees? You are clearly the beneficiary, however, a will can't just say what his does without actually setting up a trust. This looks like you are both trustee and beneficiary which I don't think is allowed. Was this will written by an actual solicitor?
If no trust was set up it looks to me like you inherit everything

Based on the OPs previous thread this was a DIY will which explains the odd wording and the issues involved. I just hope the whole thing is not invalid. Urgent professional advice needs to be taken. 

Oh dear. As far as I can make out then, if the will is valid then Critchley gets everything. If it's invalid she gets nothing and her partner's son gets everything. Fingers crossed for you OP. Let us know

Thank you for your help and advice.  I am having nightmares here that I really messed up and will end up with nothing!  His kids have had nothing to do with him for many years which is why he specifically didn't want them to inherit anything and left his "share" to charity.  

This doesn't agree with the will; you say the will says half to be shared between his son and grandson and here you say he doesn't want them to have anything?
Also very important - do you own half the house or don't you? Is your name on the deeds? Were you tenants in common or joint tenants? In one comment you say you have nothing of your own and in another you mention your 'half' of the house. 
You still can change your own will - if you make a simple will that says something like "I leave half my estate to X and 1/4 to Y and 1/4 to X charity" then that applies to everything YOU own and doesn't change anything in your partners bequests; also I'm 99% sure the 'trust' isn't valid anyway

I think the reference to son and GS may be the OPs son rather than her partner’s. In her other thread the OP said the home was held as joint tenants in which case the house is now hers.

I agree about the trust, I don’t think one has been created but legal advice needs to be sort especially once charities have visibility of the will they are more likely to pursue it than the her partners children.

OP clearly says here 'his' children and also earlier in this thread that they were tenants in common not joint tenants
Either way @critchley you either own the whole house or half of the house if your name is on the deeds and that is something you can do whatever you want with in your own will; that was never part of your partners estate even if the trust was valid ( which I'm becoming increasingly convinced it isn't because there are no trustees, so you just need to ascertain if the will itself is valid)

mattojgb

Keep_pedalling said:

I agree about the trust, I don’t think one has been created but legal advice needs to be sort especially once charities have visibility of the will they are more likely to pursue it than the her partners children.

I'm inclined to think that a valid trust has been created and even if the will is considered not to name a trustee then the executors will become the trustees. The power vested in the trustee seems quite clear but op will have to assume the responsibilities of acting as trustee.

In terms of executing a deed of variation, the presence of the charity does complicate things. They may be prepared to accept a legacy now rather than wait, and, if there are assets to cover such, it may be possible to set up a standard IPDI trust on the deceased's half of the house for the benefit of the children.