UC and if you go over 16k?

HillStreetBlues

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65d336b3e1bdec2be1322238/admh1.pdf

When income becomes capital
H1050 Income becomes capital if it has not been spent by the end of the assessment period after the
one in which it was received.

State benefits (PIP ESA etc & wages are classed as income in the AP they are paid.

blackstar

HillStreetBlues said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65d336b3e1bdec2be1322238/admh1.pdf

When income becomes capital
H1050 Income becomes capital if it has not been spent by the end of the assessment period after the
one in which it was received.

State benefits (PIP ESA etc & wages are classed as income in the AP they are paid.

Thanks. That includes Universal Credits correct?

Most people say to make the disregards yoursellf. Universal credit guidance under capital disregards:

*A claimant must provide all necessary evidence to show that any capital they have can be disregarded. If there is no evidence to show that capital can be disregarded, it is included when working out the amount of capital the assessment unit has.* 

This section of guidance is also in the public domain. https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2024-0442/025.Capital_disregards_V26.0.pdf

However, I have read one person say this and wondering what others think?

"If you ever do declare capital, it is important not to disregard it yourself, as UC needs to do this.

Do not underreport your capital, report all of the capital. If disregards are to be applied, it needs to be first reported and then sent to a decision-maker. The DM will then apply the disregard."

Spoonie_Turtle

blackstar said:

HillStreetBlues said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65d336b3e1bdec2be1322238/admh1.pdf

When income becomes capital
H1050 Income becomes capital if it has not been spent by the end of the assessment period after the
one in which it was received.

State benefits (PIP ESA etc & wages are classed as income in the AP they are paid.

Thanks. That includes Universal Credits correct?

Most people say to make the disregards yoursellf. Universal credit guidance under capital disregards:

Yes.

I don't quite know the answer to your further question but to make it really clear, for just income received it is simple - you are to declare capital.  Benefit payments during that AP are not capital, therefore they should not be included at all in the figure you declare.

In terms of how to declare capital and making sure disregards are applied, in reality you have two options:
Declare the full amount and send a journal message saying how much of that should be disregarded; or
Declare the amount to be taken into account, and send a journal message telling them your full amount of capital but that the difference (XYZ) is disregarded for ABC reasons.

I don't know which option is best.

blackstar

Spoonie_Turtle said:

blackstar said:

HillStreetBlues said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65d336b3e1bdec2be1322238/admh1.pdf

When income becomes capital
H1050 Income becomes capital if it has not been spent by the end of the assessment period after the
one in which it was received.

State benefits (PIP ESA etc & wages are classed as income in the AP they are paid.

Thanks. That includes Universal Credits correct?

Most people say to make the disregards yoursellf. Universal credit guidance under capital disregards:

Yes.

I don't quite know the answer to your further question but to make it really clear, for just income received it is simple - you are to declare capital.  Benefit payments during that AP are not capital, therefore they should not be included at all in the figure you declare.

In terms of how to declare capital and making sure disregards are applied, in reality you have two options:
Declare the full amount and send a journal message saying how much of that should be disregarded; or
Declare the amount to be taken into account, and send a journal message telling them your full amount of capital but that the difference (XYZ) is disregarded for ABC reasons.

I don't know which option is best.

Thanks so much so helpful.

We have just now made an updated saving and capital amounts and deducted all income ie wages and benefits from the capital and declared this as the correct amount we have in capital. We will now write a journal note explaining this and if they need to see any supporting documents showing disregarded capital we can provide them it. Ie COL and bank statements showing benefits and wage etc. We will also note in the journal our overall monies is £xyz with out the deductions of disregarded capital. Hope it all works out OK.

So I am understanding this correctly...simply put.

We do not declare any income received in this AP ie wages and all benefits including UC. Ie we deduct them from our bank account when making the declaration. 

We simply declare capital and savings. 

Correct? 

Spoonie_Turtle

blackstar said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

blackstar said:

HillStreetBlues said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65d336b3e1bdec2be1322238/admh1.pdf

When income becomes capital
H1050 Income becomes capital if it has not been spent by the end of the assessment period after the
one in which it was received.

State benefits (PIP ESA etc & wages are classed as income in the AP they are paid.

Thanks. That includes Universal Credits correct?

Most people say to make the disregards yoursellf. Universal credit guidance under capital disregards:

Yes.

I don't quite know the answer to your further question but to make it really clear, for just income received it is simple - you are to declare capital.  Benefit payments during that AP are not capital, therefore they should not be included at all in the figure you declare.

In terms of how to declare capital and making sure disregards are applied, in reality you have two options:
Declare the full amount and send a journal message saying how much of that should be disregarded; or
Declare the amount to be taken into account, and send a journal message telling them your full amount of capital but that the difference (XYZ) is disregarded for ABC reasons.

I don't know which option is best.

We do not declare any income received in this AP ie wages and all benefits including UC. Ie we deduct them from our bank account when making the declaration. 

We simply declare capital and savings. 

Correct? 

Yes, that's it

jadex

Spoonie_Turtle said:

jadex said:

blackstar said:

(...)

The total amount of savings/capital as of today's date is a total of £10,950 (- £5,500 of income, benefits and both my wife's double earnings within same AP of which one of them you will allocate to the next month AP. And minus the COL payments of £1,550)

Total capital after earnings, income, benefits and COL payments is

£10,950. Please use this figure as our total capital and savings for UC purposes."

How about doing that? Is that correct? 

Also, another note, you might have forgotten about one-off £500 from March-April 2021 for people on TC (those on UC got £20 weekly uplift for 18 months, so roughly about a grand more). HMRC C19 support on bank statement.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-one-off-500-payment-for-working-households-receiving-tax-credits

[Just for the sake of accuracy, Tax Credits had a £20/week uplift for the first year too, then a £500 payment to cover the remaining 6 months because it was simpler than trying to use one rate for half the year and another for the rest when calculating an annual award as TC is.]

The link says the payment will not affect people's benefits but I can't actually find any legislation for it - I don't know if there was any and I'm just not searching the right terms.  I only found a Direction https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/treasury-direction-made-under-section-76-of-the-coronavirus-act-2020/the-coronavirus-act-2020-functions-of-her-majestys-revenue-and-customs-covid-19-support-scheme-working-households-receiving-tax-credits-direction …

Oh actually, maybe it's this, with the same terms as the Direction:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2021/26/part/1/crossheading/coronavirus-support-payments-etc

31 Covid-19 support scheme: working households receiving tax credits

(1)This section applies to a payment which—

(a)is made by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs in the exercise of a function which they have as a result of a direction given by the Treasury under section 76 of the Coronavirus Act 2020, and

(b)is made to a person by reason of the person's receipt of any tax credit specified in the direction on a date so specified.

(2)No liability to income tax arises in respect of a payment to which this section applies.

(3)But subsection (2) does not prevent the application of paragraph 8 of Schedule 16 to FA 2020 (charge to income tax where person not entitled to coronavirus support payment) in relation to a payment to which this section applies.

So it says it's not taxable (which if I understand correctly means it wouldn't affect Tax Credits) but isn't explicitly excluded from counting for means-tested benefits.  Which would make sense if that is the case, as anything unspent from the corresponding UC uplift became capital for claimants.

However it is entirely possible I may have missed some other relevant legislation, so will eagerly defer to anyone knowing more!

I genuinely do not recollect getting £20 uplift to my TC... but recollections may vary.

Regarding one-off £500, I have included it into my "disregards". Obviously, UC payment was put on hold (apparently it is how their system works) and I had to go there and show them ALL my recent printed statements and proofs of "welfare payments". Two ladies sat with me and checked it all, then the case was submitted to DM to release the payment. So, either they all didn't know what they were doing or it is to be disregarded... 

blackstar

Well we submitted the figure after the deductions ie disregarded capital and it came.to just over 6k. This is the figure that now shows under our savings, capital and investments and the date we declared it.

What hapoens next? Will we be asked to come in and show all bank statements etc. 
I have a feeling they won't understand the rules on disregarded capital etc. Like Jadex found. So have printed out the Regs to take in case. 

I didnt deduct the one-off £500 as couodnt find any legislation to back it up that is is indefinitely disregarded as capital for UC purposes, unlike COL payments which are specifically mentionted that they are indefinitely disregarded as capital for UC purposes? . But if anyone has any that would be great. Couldn't find anything clearer about it. If anyone has anything specific please let me know. Thanks 

peteuk

COL payments are only disregarded if you can show you still have it eg your savings didn’t dip below the amount paid.

blackstar

peteuk said:

COL payments are only disregarded if you can show you still have it eg your savings didn’t dip below the amount paid.

Yes I have a folder of like 300 pages of bank statements showing our savings did not dip below the full col payments. 

However my question is the one of £500 also considered a COL payment hence indefinitely disregarded as capital  or if not considered a COL payment  is there legs to state that is is indefinitely disregarded as capital? I think spoonie looked into it but wasnt 100% sure..

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-one-off-500-payment-for-working-households-receiving-tax-credits

HillStreetBlues

blackstar said:

peteuk said:

COL payments are only disregarded if you can show you still have it eg your savings didn’t dip below the amount paid.

Yes I have a folder of like 300 pages of bank statements showing our savings did not dip below the full col payments. 

However my question is the one of £500 also considered a COL payment hence indefinitely disregarded as capital  or if not considered a COL payment  is there legs to state that is is indefinitely disregarded as capital? I think spoonie looked into it but wasnt 100% sure..

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-one-off-500-payment-for-working-households-receiving-tax-credits

I agree with Spoonie, nothing I have found  states it's disregarded so needs to be included as declared capital.