UC and if you go over 16k?

Spoonie_Turtle

Although in this case neither word is used - the legislation for the CoL payments just says 'no account is to be taken … '.

peteuk

Grumpy_chap said:

blackstar said:

2) Grumpy I dont quite understand your speculation about what potentially might hapoen in the future with regard to the 6k - 16k? Do you mean they will allow anything up to 6k to be disregarded for example? 
Surley the 6k - 16k threshold has to be increased as the cost of living since those figures were introduced has increased 10 times and 6k now is nothing compared to what is was when those 6k - 16k figures were introduced. 

Sorry if I was unclear, but I was trying to say exactly what you have stated.  The capital thresholds of £6k (when UC starts to get reduced) and £16k (which reduces any claim to zero) must need to be changed at some point.  I think the thresholds have been static for the best part of 20 years or thereabouts.

My speculation was around the CoL payments being disregarded "indefinitely" and the absurdness that would lead to if people are seeking (and needing to prove) that disregard in, say, another 20-years time.  So, maybe, at whatever time the £6k and £16k thresholds are reviewed, the CoL disregard would be rolled into any adjusted threshold and not additional to.

Nothing "must need to change" given that UK PLC is skint and the £6K/£16K thresholds have been unchanged since 2006.  And why should they, they point of having these thresholds are to stop people claiming from the state whilst sat on a nice pot of capital. 

The COL totals are so insignificant when you look at the higher threshold, and are disregarded anyway (if you can show you still have it) But there are other disrgards eg back pay of PIP.  The limits stays at £6/£16K. 

Migration from TC has closed the second property loophole, however there is still ways to avoid the thresholds. 

blackstar

"Migration from TC has closed the second property loophole, however there is still ways to avoid the thresholds. "

Not sure of what ways there are to avoid the threshold within the legal legislation other than COL and ofcourse the other legally approved disregarded capital. But none of them really help much. 

Savings between 6k - 16k are really nothing compared to two decades ago. For instance our electric totally failed in our home and needed a full rewire and it was £5k and there were no short cuts to save on that, then after the place had a futher 3k of plastering and painting to be done as home looked like a demolition site after the rewire and there are many other emergency costs of living that are very expensive which unless you have a safety net of healthy savings (which UC won't allow you to have as its too as 6k - 16k is not in 2025) then you will find yourself stuck. 

"Although in this case neither word is used - the legislation for the CoL payments just says 'no account is to be taken …"

Spoonie doesn't COL legislation say "indefinitely"?

Yes to the other kind poster who very correctly pointed out the word "indefinitely" is very different to "infinity" so a very careful monitoring on a monthly basis is required to check the COL is still disregarded is required.

" Migration from TC has closed the second property loophole "

I can imagine millions who were in recipt of TC were not entitled to UC for many reasons such as property and those who were at the very lower end who had a small amount of savings of just over 16k which I think is very unfair as 6k - 16k as mentioned in 2025 is not much especially if you own your own property that you live in and are responsible for repairs which can be un the thousands or the disabled who need things like a stair lift  which can be £5k etc. 

I bet this was one reason they closed TC for those who had a huge amount of savings like 200k etc. But those at the lower end with just over 16k were effected the most as 16k is nothing in 2025.

"If the savings limits for universal credit had been uprated in line with prices, support would be tapered from £10,000 instead of £6,000 and cut off at £27,000 instead of £16,000 this year, the Resolution Foundation says." 

https://inews.co.uk/news/house-deposits-wiped-britains-benefits-trap-3665753

I wonder if we can write to anyone to ask for a review of the 6k-16k? If so, who?

Spoonie_Turtle

blackstar said:

"Although in this case neither word is used - the legislation for the CoL payments just says 'no account is to be taken …"

Spoonie doesn't COL legislation say "indefinitely"?

No it doesn't.  There is no reference to time anywhere.  The full section (identical for both years):

8Payments to be disregarded for the purposes of tax and social security

No account is to be taken of an additional payment in considering a person’s—

(a)liability to tax,

(b)entitlement to benefit under an enactment relating to social security (irrespective of the name or nature of the benefit), or

(c)entitlement to a tax credit.

As I stated, simply 'No account is to be taken … '

Grumpy_chap

Spoonie_Turtle said:

As I stated, simply 'No account is to be taken … '

Possibly a result of rules drawn up in an accelerated time line.

At some point in the future, the situation could become hopelessly absurd if people - maybe year 2050, maybe year 2075 - are seeking to claim the disregard and provide evidence that the CoL was never spent.

NedS

Grumpy_chap said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

As I stated, simply 'No account is to be taken … '

Possibly a result of rules drawn up in an accelerated time line.

At some point in the future, the situation could become hopelessly absurd if people - maybe year 2050, maybe year 2075 - are seeking to claim the disregard and provide evidence that the CoL was never spent.

After a reasonable amount of time, the government of the day may put forward new legislation amending the previous CoL disregard if it becomes a significant issue.

kaMelo

blackstar said:

"Migration from TC has closed the second property loophole, however there is still ways to avoid the thresholds. "

Not sure of what ways there are to avoid the threshold within the legal legislation other than COL and ofcourse the other legally approved disregarded capital. But none of them really help much. 

Savings between 6k - 16k are really nothing compared to two decades ago. For instance our electric totally failed in our home and needed a full rewire and it was £5k and there were no short cuts to save on that, then after the place had a futher 3k of plastering and painting to be done as home looked like a demolition site after the rewire and there are many other emergency costs of living that are very expensive which unless you have a safety net of healthy savings (which UC won't allow you to have as its too as 6k - 16k is not in 2025) then you will find yourself stuck. 

"Although in this case neither word is used - the legislation for the CoL payments just says 'no account is to be taken …"

Spoonie doesn't COL legislation say "indefinitely"?

Yes to the other kind poster who very correctly pointed out the word "indefinitely" is very different to "infinity" so a very careful monitoring on a monthly basis is required to check the COL is still disregarded is required.

" Migration from TC has closed the second property loophole "

I can imagine millions who were in recipt of TC were not entitled to UC for many reasons such as property and those who were at the very lower end who had a small amount of savings of just over 16k which I think is very unfair as 6k - 16k as mentioned in 2025 is not much especially if you own your own property that you live in and are responsible for repairs which can be un the thousands or the disabled who need things like a stair lift  which can be £5k etc. 

I bet this was one reason they closed TC for those who had a huge amount of savings like 200k etc. But those at the lower end with just over 16k were effected the most as 16k is nothing in 2025.

"If the savings limits for universal credit had been uprated in line with prices, support would be tapered from £10,000 instead of £6,000 and cut off at £27,000 instead of £16,000 this year, the Resolution Foundation says." 

https://inews.co.uk/news/house-deposits-wiped-britains-benefits-trap-3665753

I wonder if we can write to anyone to ask for a review of the 6k-16k? If so, who?

Fiscal drag is in effect everywhere, many tax allowances are currently frozen or being reduced. It would be completely against the grain to hope of an increase in the capital allowance for benefit claimants whilst simultaneously making taxpayers poorer.  

born_again

NedS said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

As I stated, simply 'No account is to be taken … '

Possibly a result of rules drawn up in an accelerated time line.

At some point in the future, the situation could become hopelessly absurd if people - maybe year 2050, maybe year 2075 - are seeking to claim the disregard and provide evidence that the CoL was never spent.

After a reasonable amount of time, the government of the day may put forward new legislation amending the previous CoL disregard if it becomes a significant issue.

Could they even go as far as saying that as they were given at the time to assist with costs, that anyone claiming they never used them, that they are going to claim the funds back?

kaMelo

born_again said:

NedS said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

As I stated, simply 'No account is to be taken … '

Possibly a result of rules drawn up in an accelerated time line.

At some point in the future, the situation could become hopelessly absurd if people - maybe year 2050, maybe year 2075 - are seeking to claim the disregard and provide evidence that the CoL was never spent.

After a reasonable amount of time, the government of the day may put forward new legislation amending the previous CoL disregard if it becomes a significant issue.

Could they even go as far as saying that as they were given at the time to assist with costs, that anyone claiming they never used them, that they are going to claim the funds back?

Lol, I can see how that would be spun in the media. 

Whilst anything is possible I suspect the chances of it happening are somewhere around zero

blackstar

A few questions please.

1) So am I right to keep disregarding my COL payments from my savings/capital until there's a change to either of this documents regarding COL?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2022/38 & https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/7

2) What link can I look to in order to feel confident COL payments are disregarded from capital for UC purposes?
Or what bit of legislation can I quote if I am asked by UC that it is correct to disregard COL payments?

3) can I ask peoples thoughts on this

H1766 and H1767

https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2023-0365/025_Capital_disregards_V22-0.pdf

"The government is making Cost of Living Payments to claimants on certain benefits including Universal Credit.

The Cost of Living Payment is disregarded for Universal Credit capital purposes indefinitely"

And 

Disregard of Cost-of-Living payments (providing the balance has never gone below the running sum of those payments) - H1767 of the ADM Chapter H1 cites Social Security (Additional Payments) Acts 2022 s.8 and 2023 s.8, asserting that these should be permanently disregarded. That's a permament disregard of £1850 for all related payments. But there is no question in the UC interface about Cost-of-Living disregards.

We just got our first UC with our reduced capital and they said they have verified everything and the award is correct. They used the capital we declared with the disregarded capital applied but also noted in the journal our full amount of monies without the disregarded amounts and also what we had disregarded and why. What are peoples