UC and if you go over 16k?

NedS

blackstar said:

UPDATE

So after almost a month of them passing onto a DM to decide what capital we have, we got a journal message from a DM at the Canterbury Service Centre (we are in Scotland).

They said 

"On 24 July 2025, your total money, savings and investments was £12289.41."

They have put our capital to over 6k more than what it should be as on the last day of our AP on 28th June 2025 our capital after deductions was £6,432.47. Our AP is 29th - 28th. 

We know we have correctly disregarded the right amount of capital.

We have written a Mandatory Reconsideration in the journal asking why our journal declarations were ignored where we show the correct amount of capital and why certain capital should be disregarded. 
We also asked for their breakdown as to what they have not disregarded and why?

Also does anyone know they stated our capital on 24th July 2025 was £12289.41 but the date we made the journal declaration was the last day of our AP which was June 28th 2025. So did they go through all our bank accounts yesterday without us knowing and come to that figure yesterday? Confused? 

Anyone advice on what to do next?

Thanks all

They probably just entered the date that they made the decision (24th July), rather than the date you declared the change. They do not have access to your bank accounts so would only have been able to use the statements/evidence you provided in making their decision.

If you do not agree, you can ask for a written statement of reasons (WSOR) which may or may not show how they have calculated your capital, and can request a Mandatory Reconsideration.

Are you able to work out how they arrived at the figure of £12,289.41 from the evidence you provided, which may help explain what they've done?

In your Mandatory reconsideration, I would not focus too much on what they may have or have not done, but rather clearly lay out the balances of any accounts (preferably on the last day of the AP) together with any disregards that you believe apply.

HillStreetBlues

NedS said:

In your Mandatory reconsideration, I would not focus too much on what they may have or have not done, but rather clearly lay out the balances of any accounts (preferably on the last day of the AP) together with any disregards that you believe apply.

I agree.
With the MR just concentrate on why you are correct in your calculation. It's a waste of time showing they are wrong as if they are wrong that doesn't prove you are right (you could both be wrong) Break everything down in simple steps

blackstar

Thanks all.

I've made a mandatory reconsideration and sent it by post and did exactly what you guys mentioned...so waiting on the outcome. 

Trouble is, does this mean the same thing will happen everytime my savings are more or less than £250 difference at the end of each AP? 

Ie a DM recalculates our capital, gets it wrong and we then have to make a MR and hope they fix it???

HillStreetBlues

blackstar said:

Thanks all.

I've made a mandatory reconsideration and sent it by post and did exactly what you guys mentioned...so waiting on the outcome. 

Trouble is, does this mean the same thing will happen everytime my savings are more or less than £250 difference at the end of each AP? 

Ie a DM recalculates our capital, gets it wrong and we then have to make a MR and hope they fix it???

It should depend on the current MR, if that is upheld then future deductions should be based on that  While waiting for the decision I expect they will just keep on using the same method so will need a MR every month. But they are a law unto themselves, think it will be a case of wait and see.

blackstar

HillStreetBlues said:

blackstar said:

Thanks all.

I've made a mandatory reconsideration and sent it by post and did exactly what you guys mentioned...so waiting on the outcome. 

Trouble is, does this mean the same thing will happen everytime my savings are more or less than £250 difference at the end of each AP? 

Ie a DM recalculates our capital, gets it wrong and we then have to make a MR and hope they fix it???

It should depend on the current MR, if that is upheld then future deductions should be based on that  While waiting for the decision I expect they will just keep on using the same method so will need a MR every month. But they are a law unto themselves, think it will be a case of wait and see.

Thanks will wait and see.

Frustrating that they said in the journal we have to declare all monies we have or have access too and not disregard anything as it's up to a DM to decide and we have to make a capital declaration if our savings are different by £250 either way each month which almost always it is. 

So now we make the declaration and we are over the 16k and make a MR reconsideration each month.

The last month I cant figure out how they came to the figure they did but atleast it was still until 16k but still 6k away from what it should have been...
Atleast we still got UC last month. Who knows what decision they will cone up with this month. 
It is so totally messed up and vast majority of staff don't know about disregarded capital yet alone things like COL etc. 
Then the system of writing messages in the journal and it not being picked up for days and days....such an absolute mess, tine consuming and a burden every month. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Next time you have to declare could you please take a screenshot when it asks 'Do you have any of the following:' with a list of boxes?  Both for my own sanity but also mainly because it's possible there might be something in there to assist you.  I can't remember what you have that's disregarded but there may be a/some box/es that turns out to be relevant - for instance, I put my COL payments in the 'Welfare support' box and that was automatically deducted from my total.

born_again

Looking at this from a different angle to try to mitigate the issue going forward.
As plenty of good advice on the UC side already

This is more of a pragmatic way of looking at the issue.
Do you have any debts that could be paid.
Anything in the house you could replace, nice new gadgets or fancy a holiday.
Just looking at getting that balance down a bit so you do not have this issue going forward.👍

blackstar

BORN again thanks for the advice.

Spoonie, thanks for your advice and yes I will take a screenshot next time. There is a box for welfare support payments whixh I belive are disregarded for 12 months. Last month we put in our child's direct payments ie Self Directed Support and that amount was then deducted from our capital at the end of the declaration. Rather than it just simply being ignored as it should have been. So had to start all over again. 

Spoonie_Turtle

blackstar said:

BORN again thanks for the advice.

Spoonie, thanks for your advice and yes I will take a screenshot next time. There is a box for welfare support payments whixh I belive are disregarded for 12 months. Last month we put in our child's direct payments ie Self Directed Support and that amount was then deducted from our capital at the end of the declaration. Rather than it just simply being ignored as it should have been. So had to start all over again. 

Ohhhhh in that case I may have made a mistake with mine.  Oh dear.  They really don't make it clear or simple!  (And still waiting for a formal decision on mine that they've not calculated correctly, but at least for me it's a dispute about the £6k threshold and not the £16k threshold affecting overall eligibility.)

blackstar

Spoonie_Turtle said:

blackstar said:

BORN again thanks for the advice.

Spoonie, thanks for your advice and yes I will take a screenshot next time. There is a box for welfare support payments whixh I belive are disregarded for 12 months. Last month we put in our child's direct payments ie Self Directed Support and that amount was then deducted from our capital at the end of the declaration. Rather than it just simply being ignored as it should have been. So had to start all over again. 

Ohhhhh in that case I may have made a mistake with mine.  Oh dear.  They really don't make it clear or simple!  (And still waiting for a formal decision on mine that they've not calculated correctly, but at least for me it's a dispute about the £6k threshold and not the £16k threshold affecting overall eligibility.)

Ohh I hope you haven't made a mistake with yours.
I was shocked when it deducted the welfare support payments from our overall capital rather than just disregarding it as capital? Makes no sense at all??? Plus Direct payment ie SDS in Scotland is not a welfare support payment either its totally different but that was the closest category so had to change it and just declare it as the advisor told me to do in the journal. 
Yes glad you are just debating the 6k aspect and not a over 16k affecting overall eligibility...we are 10k below the 16k but if you add on the direct payment for our disabled child it takes us over 16k, even though this money is not technically ours, it can only be used for specific things the council have approved to meet our childs disability and controlled by the council and any underspend is automatically recouped by the council, they control the allpay account but the advisor on Uc journal told us we have to still declare it as its money we have access too...