Does the Switch process apply as normal when moving from copper to full fibre?

iniltous

There is what should happen and what may happen , if your VF 150Mb FTTP over Openreach is delayed , and importantly you are taking your phone number with you from Talk Talk FTTC ( also an Openreach network ) , VF shouldn't ‘ask’ TT for the phone number , and  because TT don’t get any notification from VF ( and VF  don’t get notified by Openreach , because  the installation is incomplete ) the dates shouldn’t actually matter , TT should continue  until VF ask for the phone number ….unfortunately often this can be cocked up  like if you serve notice yourself instead of leaving it to the new provider .

Assuming no one cocks up , TT should continue to supply service, this may cost you more if you are outside a TT minimum term , however that’s in a perfect world, often this goes wrong because TT unilaterally turn you off , or VF ask for the number ( even though OR didn’t confirm the network ready ) or OR say it’s complete when it isn’t , and if it does go wrong , you will never find out who messed up , neither TT or VF will accept the blame , they will point the finger at the other party or parties.

Because of this getting some sort of mobile back up is a good idea if you have a usable mobile alternative.

FWIW , you may not get compensation, check your address here ,

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

if it states KCI2 assure , that’s a 2 stage installation, it means that the date Openreach give the ISP, that’s Vodafone in your case ( and the date VF gave to you ) is an advisory date , OR effectively survey what’s needed on that date , put in place whatever measures are needed , and when that preparation work is done ( that’s the first stage of a two stage installation ) Openreach give VF another contractual date for the second stage , which is fitting the FTTP wiring and ONT etc, the first date isn’t contractual.

As well as the installation type ( single stage or KCI2 ) there is also information about the type of service that currently exists and a description of what issues  there may be in getting FTTP ‘active’ , it looks like this , although this example is a modern fully ducted property so it’s not a two stage but single stage , and no issues are expected.

 Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

What does your address show ?

Brimble

QrizB said:

Brimble said:

 - We could see if we can cope using mobile hot-spots, perhaps purchasing bigger monthly data packs to help (I believe we will get £6.10 compensation per day for the delay, so that should easily cover such costs).

I don't know what your mobile co charges for add-on data, but MSE currently list an "unlimited" SIM-only deal for £16/mo on a one-month contract with TalkMobile (uses Vodafone's network). If you've got an old phone you could put that SIM in, it might be a way to provide a home hotspot while your BB is down?

Or you could splash out and buy a whole-house 4G router for the sSIM, something like this (not a recommendation, just the first likely-looking hit when I searched):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/167067073538

Thanks, that might be a good option. Is there any signifixant benefit in having a router instead of just using an old phone? We've got at least 2 phones that aren't very old (2-3 years) and in perfectly good working order - would the router provide anything important that they can't?

Brimble

iniltous said:

There is what should happen and what may happen , if your VF 150Mb FTTP over Openreach is delayed , and importantly you are taking your phone number with you from Talk Talk FTTC ( also an Openreach network ) , VF shouldn't ‘ask’ TT for the phone number , and  because TT don’t get any notification from VF ( and VF  don’t get notified by Openreach , because  the installation is incomplete ) the dates shouldn’t actually matter , TT should continue  until VF ask for the phone number ….unfortunately often this can be cocked up , if you serve notice yourself instead of leaving it to the new provider ,  TT should continue to supply service, this may cost you more if you are outside a TT minimum term , however that’s in a perfect world, often this goes wrong because TT unilaterally turn you off , or VF ask for the number ( even though OR didn’t confirm the network ready ) and if it does go wrong , you will never find out who messed up , neither TT or VF accept the blame , they will point the finger at the other party or parties.

Getting some sort of mobile back up is a good idea if you have a usable mobile alternative.

FWIW , you may not get compensation, check your address here ,

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome

if it states KCI2 assure , that’s a 2 stage installation, it means that the date Openreach give the ISP, that’s Vodafone in your case ( and the date VF gave to you ) is an advisory date , OR effectively survey what’s needed on that date , put in place whatever measures are needed , and when that preparation work is done ( that’s the first stage of a two stage installation ) Openreach give VF another contractual date for the second stage , which is fitting the FTTP wiring and ONT etc, the first date isn’t contractual.

As well as the installation type ( single stage or KCI2 ) there is also information about the type of service that currently exists and a description of what issues  there may be in getting FTTP ‘active’ , it looks like this , although this example is a modern fully ducted property so it’s not a two stage but single stage , and no issues are expected.

 Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.

What does your address show ?

That's all incredibly helpful as usual, thanks.

On the first part - whether or not my existing service will continue - I guess we'll see tomorrow...

On the second part - the compensation entitlement and info about my installation, here's the equivalent text for my address:

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG premises served by 2.5 Inch plastic duct 56.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

There's actually about 10 or so rows of further text under that - it all means nothing to me, but I can post it if it may be useful (i.e. means something to you).

I must say I am a little surprised not to have recevied any texts or emails from anyone yet about this - I must have had about 30 or so over the last few weeks from OR and VF, I'd have thought today they would at least have sent a holding email this afternoon to say "there is an issue with your installation and you will be provided with an estimated revised date in the coming days" or whatever...

QrizB

Brimble said:

QrizB said:

Brimble said:

 - We could see if we can cope using mobile hot-spots, perhaps purchasing bigger monthly data packs to help (I believe we will get £6.10 compensation per day for the delay, so that should easily cover such costs).

I don't know what your mobile co charges for add-on data, but MSE currently list an "unlimited" SIM-only deal for £16/mo on a one-month contract with TalkMobile (uses Vodafone's network). If you've got an old phone you could put that SIM in, it might be a way to provide a home hotspot while your BB is down?

Or you could splash out and buy a whole-house 4G router for the sSIM, something like this (not a recommendation, just the first likely-looking hit when I searched):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/167067073538

Thanks, that might be a good option. Is there any signifixant benefit in having a router instead of just using an old phone? We've got at least 2 phones that aren't very old (2-3 years) and in perfectly good working order - would the router provide anything important that they can't?

At least in principle, the router will have better antennas and a stronger signal so will give you better wifi range. If you live in a 2-bed flat this is unlikely to make a difference, but in a larger house it might.

Of course, even in a bigger property if you do all your high-data work in one or two adjacent rooms (Netflix in the lounge, say, with your laptop on the dining table one room over) then a phone might be sufficient.

You could suck it and see?

Got_problem

I put in an order to upgrade to fibre & change provider from Talk Talk to Vodafone in late September. The date for installation was late October. When the Open Reach engineer came it was discovered there was no free socket in the port in the outside box. I am still waiting, the latest installation date (3rd - today) has been cancelled the day before as every one before & moved now to 17 January, but given the way things have gone I have no expectation this will not be similarly cancelled. No one has explained why providing another 4 socket port (as suggested by the various Open Reach engineers who have come out to no avail) is such a problem. One cannot deal directly with Open Reach, and clearly Vodafone have no power to get them to proceed. Vodafone have now given me a small (less than month fee) compensation for the inconvenience.  One has to ask why an 8 socket port was originally fitted to a box that serves 10 properties in the first place. 

Meanwhile, without notice Talk Talk disconnected my service 19 November. They lied about it for nearly 4 weeks, going so far as to send an Open Reach engineer out to resolve a fault on the line which didn’t exist (he said it was an ‘authentication’ issue their end), they eventually sent out a new router which also made no difference as that was not the problem. I finally had an email which confirmed the line was disconnected and a technician told me on the phone that the reason they could not help me over the new router was that the line had been disconnected by them. So, what should be a ‘transfer’ is no such thing. I have been without any internet since 19 November in an area where there is very little signal.

I have been thoroughly worn down by the whole process & wish I’d never tried to upgrade to fibre. Meanwhile, because my area technically has fibre available I cannot get any other provider to replace the copper service, even though I have tried & failed to upgrade to fibre. 

iniltous

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG premises served by 2.5 Inch plastic duct 56.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

This is normally good news , it means Openreach think the address has a duct so installation should be straightforward, however the state of the duct is unknown, it may be blocked , Openreach  won’t know until they try and use it ….although what the Openreach tech stated suggested that this is the wrong survey note , it makes no real difference, excavation is needed to either fix the existing duct or to provide a new duct to fix the issue , that they thought a duct existed but doesn’t .

Because of the delay Openreach don’t indicate to the ISP’s that FTTP work is done ( because it isn’t ) so nothing should happen to the existing copper service, however this isn’t always the case , either the old ISP doesn’t care that the new service isn’t available, and close your old account anyway , knocking your service off , or VF asks for your phone number , even though Openreach’s FTTP  isn’t ready to provide service ….then there is the least likely error that Openreach  tell the involved ISPs that everything is good to go , when it isn’t .

HGHPVM25

We are in a very similar situation.  Openreach seem to be controlling things (or not doing anything) behind the scenes but aren't answerable to anyone as your broadband contract is with the provider eg BT, TT, Vodafone etc.  So frustrating.

We checked fibre was available  and requested a switch from Talk Talk to BT at the end of August 2024
We still don't have broadband fibre in January 2025! 

BT Openreach confirmed they could install by 13th September so Talk Talk cut us off and left us without any Internet.  We had such a fight with BT claiming they couldn't take over and connect us to the copper Broadband Talk Talk had been using, even though it was still physically connected to the property. (mobile signal here is woeful and the router/hub they sent us to fill in was not fit for purpose).  

Their communication has been awful.  Engineers not turning up or coming and going with no communication on what has or hasn't happened and why?  

They eventually relented in December and connected us back on the copper wire so we have restored our previous service level (thank goodness) but still no sign of when fibre will be connected.  They are offering the £6.10 per day compensation but that doesn't seem to be getting Openreach to move any quicker and why would it when it's BT that covers the cost.  

I do have a direct email communication with a manager at BT which is much better than waiting in their phone queue but she doesn't seem to be able to get any information or have any influence over the process either.  

Latest update is an Openreach engineer will call on 24th Jan but the BT manager doesn't know if this is starting the fibre process all over again (because we reinstated the copper and it triggered something) and therefore there is nothing for the engineer to do apart from tick a box in the process or if it will be an engineer who actually understands the issues with installation and will arrived equipped to deal with them.  

I raised a complaint with the Communications Ombudsman but honestly it was a complete waste of time.  They say BT is not at fault.  They are doing everything they can.  The issues are with Openreach. 

Do I have any recourse to Openreach as I don't have a contract with them directly?

littleboo

You don't have any recourse with Openreach. You have a working broadband service and compensation.  

iniltous

No such organisation as BT Openreach, it’s Openreach 

Brimble

HGHPVM25 said:

We are in a very similar situation.  Openreach seem to be controlling things (or not doing anything) behind the scenes but aren't answerable to anyone as your broadband contract is with the provider eg BT, TT, Vodafone etc.  So frustrating.

We checked fibre was available  and requested a switch from Talk Talk to BT at the end of August 2024
We still don't have broadband fibre in January 2025! 

BT Openreach confirmed they could install by 13th September so Talk Talk cut us off and left us without any Internet.  We had such a fight with BT claiming they couldn't take over and connect us to the copper Broadband Talk Talk had been using, even though it was still physically connected to the property. (mobile signal here is woeful and the router/hub they sent us to fill in was not fit for purpose).  

Their communication has been awful.  Engineers not turning up or coming and going with no communication on what has or hasn't happened and why?  

They eventually relented in December and connected us back on the copper wire so we have restored our previous service level (thank goodness) but still no sign of when fibre will be connected.  They are offering the £6.10 per day compensation but that doesn't seem to be getting Openreach to move any quicker and why would it when it's BT that covers the cost.  

I do have a direct email communication with a manager at BT which is much better than waiting in their phone queue but she doesn't seem to be able to get any information or have any influence over the process either.  

Latest update is an Openreach engineer will call on 24th Jan but the BT manager doesn't know if this is starting the fibre process all over again (because we reinstated the copper and it triggered something) and therefore there is nothing for the engineer to do apart from tick a box in the process or if it will be an engineer who actually understands the issues with installation and will arrived equipped to deal with them.  

I raised a complaint with the Communications Ombudsman but honestly it was a complete waste of time.  They say BT is not at fault.  They are doing everything they can.  The issues are with Openreach. 

Do I have any recourse to Openreach as I don't have a contract with them directly?

Thanks for providing your experience, however i'm a bit confused about why you would want anything extra - obviously we want to upgrade to full fibre, but if it hadn't been 'advertised' as being available to us then we wouldn't have ordered it, and hence would have stuck with copper wire, so wouldn't have lost anything. I assume that's the same for you now? That being the case, yes you have gone through some inconvenience, but right now you have your copper wire back (as you would have had if you'd not ordered full fibre), but BT are now paying you £6.12 per day, for god knows how long, so you will end up very well up on the deal won't you? As I say, we would like full fibre, but if Vodafone (in our case) are going to pay us £6.12 per day until we have full fibre, then they can take a whole year as far as we're concerned - we're basically getting free broadband, plus lots of additional money on top!

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding you somehow... (?)