ESA to UC migration info

FannyAdamski

TimeLord1 said:

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

Everyone in the Support Group had an assessment back around 2018 to see if they had a LCWRA and if so wouldn't need further assessments. I guess this was getting people ready to move to UC then the 2 year mask virus hit and people heard nothing.

That can't be correct because I didn't have one back then. I had one in 2016 and again in March 2020, just before the pandemic started. 

It would be the 2020 WCA that determined if you was in the Support Group you had the LCWRA for UC that was the Damian Green era I sent of for my LT54 /ESA56 and the report stated treated as Limited Capability for Work Related Activity. I believe it was one of his last things he did about pointless to keep bringing people back to achieve the same results.

TimeLord, does this mean that those ESA Support Group claiments who have not been reassessed after 2018, or thereabouts, will have to be reassessed for UC LCWRA ?

TimeLord1

The assessments finished around 2020 but started around October 2017. I spent ages going through the legislation back then. Because we was trying to determine what disabilities wouldn't require further assessments so everyone in the Support Group was assessed over several years because there was some 85,000 then to determine if they would be treated as LCWRA and if severe wouldn't require further assessments if the condition remained the same.

poppy12345

TimeLord1 said:

The assessments finished around 2020 but started around October 2017. I spent ages going through the legislation back then. Because we was trying to determine what disabilities wouldn't require further assessments so everyone in the Support Group was assessed over several years because there was some 85,000 then to determine if they would be treated as LCWRA and if severe wouldn't require further assessments if the condition remained the same.

There were some people in the Support Group for ESA and LCWRA for UC that were reviewed at some point, can't remember if it was last year or the year before, why did this happen if they ended in 2020?

TimeLord1

poppy12345 said:

TimeLord1 said:

The assessments finished around 2020 but started around October 2017. I spent ages going through the legislation back then. Because we was trying to determine what disabilities wouldn't require further assessments so everyone in the Support Group was assessed over several years because there was some 85,000 then to determine if they would be treated as LCWRA and if severe wouldn't require further assessments if the condition remained the same.

There were some people in the Support Group for ESA and LCWRA for UC that were reviewed at some point, can't remember if it was last year or the year before, why did this happen if they ended in 2020?

It was to see what disabilities, illnesses wouldn't improve and stay the same with the current medical treatments and stop pointless assessments being repeated every few years. But nobody that we knew of received any information to state they wouldn't require any further assessments in the legislation it stated anyone with a life long severe condition with LCWRA would no longer require further assessments. 

huckster

WCA outcomes have 3 to 36 month prognosis periods, where after the reassessments are often delayed.

 For those with life long health issues which are unlikely to change in regard to work capability, the health professional completing the assessment report just makes a note regarding severity of health. And the DWP Decision Makers make record that reassessment is unlikely to lead to different outcome. Does not mean that a reassessment could not be arranged. It is just not a priority to process.

TimeLord1

I personally think once the health professional puts no improvement expected in the longer term, the client has a lifelong severe condition therefore meets the LCWRA / Support Group.

Then a prognosis to look at a decision date would be added once the decision maker reads the medical information, then basically any future contact would most likely be paper based decisions every few years because it could not be superceded by another medical outcome unless medical treatments improved or cured the condition. Or the client reports a change. Under Incapacity benefit people weren't assessed for decades basically classed as pensioned off.

Newcad

I see it got busy yesterday and I'm late to the party.

@FannyAdamski

Remember that UC and ESA are 2 totally seperate benefits, they just overlap and can affect each other at times.

That letter is typical of the confusing B*** that ESA has always put out. They have always been pretty abysmal at explaining things.
The dates just presented as they are there mean very little without more information. The letter is trying to explain 2 different things at once and failing to explain either.

Let's see if I can explain them a bit better:

Firstly -
I would simply take the letter as confirmation that you were getting both CB ESA with IR ESA premiums.
It is what now happens to each of those two different types of ESA that the letter is trying, and failing, to explain.

Explanation #1 IR ESA:
The main thing that is missing, which would make more sense of that letter is in the line:
"We cannot pay you an allowance from 11 January 2025. This is because:"
If that line instead read:
"We cannot pay you an allowance of Income Related ESA from 11 January 2025. This is because:"
Then it makes more sense of the whole letter - the IR ESA cannot be paid from 11 Jan 2025 because it is migrated to UC LCWRA.

Explanation #2 CB ESA
Your Old Style CB ESA has become 'New Style CB ESA'. They say all the way back until 16 Feb 2011, even though New Style ESA didn't exist then (it didn't exist until 2013).
A good trick that one but obviously also nonsense.
It's simply an existing Old Style CB ESA which has been transitioned to New Style CB ESA on the date that you claimed UC.
The letter is attempting (very poorly) to confirm that it still remains all one CB ESA claim going back to 2011, there has just been a slight change to the legislation, the rules, that govern it now that you are claiming UC as well.
(The applicable legislation changes because the 2013 'New Style' ESA legislation no longer has to include IR ESA as well).

Hopefully those ESA changes in that letter are now both a bit more understandable.

FannyAdamski

Newcad said:

I see it got busy yesterday and I'm late to the party.

@FannyAdamski

Remember that UC and ESA are 2 totally seperate benefits, they just overlap and can affect each other at times.

That letter is typical of the confusing B*** that ESA has always put out. They have always been pretty abysmal at explaining things.
The dates just presented as they are there mean very little without more information. The letter is trying to explain 2 different things at once and failing to explain either.

Let's see if I can explain them a bit better:

Firstly -
I would simply take the letter as confirmation that you were getting both CB ESA with IR ESA premiums.
It is what now happens to each of those two different types of ESA that the letter is trying, and failing, to explain.

Explanation #1 IR ESA:
The main thing that is missing, which would make more sense of that letter is in the line:
"We cannot pay you an allowance from 11 January 2025. This is because:"
If that line instead read:
"We cannot pay you an allowance of Income Related ESA from 11 January 2025. This is because:"
Then it makes more sense of the whole letter - the IR ESA cannot be paid from 11 Jan 2025 because it is migrated to UC LCWRA.

Explanation #2 CB ESA
Your Old Style CB ESA has become 'New Style CB ESA'. They say all the way back until 16 Feb 2011, even though New Style ESA didn't exist then (it didn't exist until 2013).
A good trick that one but obviously also nonsense.
It's simply an existing Old Style CB ESA which has been transitioned to New Style CB ESA on the date that you claimed UC.
The letter is attempting (very poorly) to confirm that it still remains all one CB ESA claim going back to 2011, there has just been a slight change to the legislation, the rules, that govern it now that you are claiming UC as well.
(The applicable legislation changes because the 2013 'New Style' ESA legislation no longer has to include IR ESA as well).

Hopefully those ESA changes in that letter are now both a bit more understandable.

Hello @Newcad,

Good to hear from you too 🥳🎉 Thanks for replying. 

You said:

'Firstly - I would simply take the letter as confirmation that you were getting both CB ESA with IR ESA premiums.

It is what now happens to each of those two different types of ESA that the letter is trying, and failing, to explain.'

That's the conclusion I came to, without being certain.

This letter reads to me as if they have literally used my original ESA award letter and tweaked it a bit, making a change here and there, in an attempt to inform me that my legacy ESA award was contribution-based, they can no longer pay me part of it (the IR part) and that the C-ESA is now New Style.

You also said:

'Explanation #1 IR ESA:

The main thing that is missing, which would make more sense of that letter is in the line:

"We cannot pay you an allowance from 11 January 2025. This is because:"

If that line instead read:

"We cannot pay you an allowance of Income Related ESA from 11 January 2025. This is because:"

Then it makes more sense of the whole letter - the IR ESA cannot be paid from 11 Jan 2025 because it is migrated to UC LCWRA'

It gets even better: here's p.4 of the letter, which I forgot to include yesterday...

FA 🎉

FannyAdamski

@TimeLord1, @huckster, @poppy12345,

I have not been assessed since 2010/2011. I had a face-to-face WCA in 2010, and I have reason to think that I may have had a paper reassessment in 2011. 

FA

Newcad

Yep. those letters have always been an abomination and totally confusing with that mention of 'income-related amount' even when it was (is) entirely Old Style CB ESA.

In the case of your letter though it is a dogs dinner it does show that you did have an IR ESA component; it's the £20.85 Disability Income Guarantee (also called the Enhanced Disability Premium or EDP).
It is that EDP component that is migrated to UC.
Which leaves just the Personal allowance of  £90.50 + SG of  £47.70 = £138.20 a week payable as New Style CB ESA (Which will then be deducted £ for £ from UC at £598.87 each month).