Bristol Airport VCS - PCN for 15 seconds

Spottydog65

Evening all. I hope it is less torrential where you than where I am. The rain has been unbelieveable. 
I am just coming up to the 30 day period by which I need to  respond to the LOC and have drafted a response on which I would be really grateful for comments. It is taken mostly from the Newbies post second point.
I'm wondering whether to include the point about 6 on their bylaws. worthwhile???? 
And am I going into too much detail on my reasons for dispute?

.......
Dear xx
I refer to your letter of claim dated xxxxxx
I confirm that my address for service for the time being is as follows  xxxxx

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

As I have noted in previous correspondence with you, I am disputing the claim for a number of reasons, 1) no contract was formed as nothing was offered; 2)  a parking charge notice has been issued for a non-parking event 3) in the specific circumstances of this event not stopping, which you are stating should have been the correct action, would have meant breaking the UK law under which drivers have a legal obligation to maintain full control of their vehicle at all times. If a person is tangled their ability to steer, brake, or operate the car safely could be compromised, increasing the risk of an accident. Additionally, it would be contra to the by laws with which you operate which state

‘6 ... no person shall:
6.1 Conduct while driving
 drive a vehicle:-
6.1.1 dangerously (by which is meant to drive in such a manner where having regard to the circumstances such driving is likely to cause injury or damage to property)
6.1.2 without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the Airport.

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".
1. Please confirm that the additional £70 represents what you are disguising as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully

Spottydog65

By the way. I have had a response from my MP who has written to me to let me know that he is taking the matter up with the MP for Bristol and will get back to me. That's good news. 

I have also had a response from Bristol Airport's "Director" which I may post here (with edits to take names etc out) as it talks to a number of points which are being discussed on other threads about Bristol Airport 'parking charge' nonsense. 

Fruitcake

"Additionally, it would be contra to the by laws with which you operate which state ..."

Additionally, failing to stop would not only be contrary to Bristol Airport bylaws by which motorists and VCS must all abide, stopping in circumstances such as these is permitted by bylaws that supersede any made-up so called parking contract.


"Bristol Airport's "Director"" - Do you mean Dave Lees? He is the chief executive of the airport.

Imnotpaying

Spottydog65 said:

By the way. I have had a response from my MP who has written to me to let me know that he is taking the matter up with the MP for Bristol and will get back to me. That's good news. 

I have also had a response from Bristol Airport's "Director" which I may post here (with edits to take names etc out) as it talks to a number of points which are being discussed on other threads about Bristol Airport 'parking charge' nonsense. 

Please do post it.  It would interesting and useful to compare the text of my BAL correspondence with yours.  Its likely to be similar, since I'm sure they're all cut and pasted from text supplied by VCS.

Spottydog65

Imnotpaying said:

Spottydog65 said:

By the way. I have had a response from my MP who has written to me to let me know that he is taking the matter up with the MP for Bristol and will get back to me. That's good news. 

I have also had a response from Bristol Airport's "Director" which I may post here (with edits to take names etc out) as it talks to a number of points which are being discussed on other threads about Bristol Airport 'parking charge' nonsense. 

Please do post it.  It would interesting and useful to compare the text of my BAL correspondence with yours.  Its likely to be similar, since I'm sure they're all cut and pasted from text supplied by VCS.

I think I'm getting a lot of the same nonsense you are receiving. A lot looks like it's cut and pasted. The response from BA's 'director' looked like it was written by VCS. I had to question whether the chap was a real employee of the airport. Will paste it as soon as I've taken the name and identifer info out. 

Spottydog65

Fruitcake said:

"Additionally, it would be contra to the by laws with which you operate which state ..."

Additionally, failing to stop would not only be contrary to Bristol Airport bylaws by which motorists and VCS must all abide, stopping in circumstances such as these is permitted by bylaws that supersede any made-up so called parking contract.


"Bristol Airport's "Director"" - Do you mean Dave Lees? He is the chief executive of the airport.

The chap himself who fails to put a signature or contact info on his emails

Spottydog65

As promised here is the misssive from BA in response to my email to Ontario Teachers. 
I paritcularly liked point one which was in response to my note that they (VCS) had told me I should have looked at the sign which was in fact positioned behind my car and no signs were in front when I turned round at the hilton. Also do note point 2 about the markings on their vehicles. From the photos we have on this forum, this is not true. 
And note that they are still calling it a 'fine'. 
---

Thank you for your letter dated xxx which has been passed to me by Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan regarding the Charge Notice issued by Vehicle Control Services (VCS) at Bristol Airport. I appreciate the opportunity to address your concerns and provide clarification on this matter. 

1. Signage and Grace Period: We must advise that the signage on the access roads is reflective, positioned to face oncoming motorists, and the text size is relative to the average approach speed of vehicles. Furthermore, all signage at the site uses the nationally recognised Highway Code symbol for ‘No Stopping’ (clearway) and is designed to be read from a moving vehicle. We refer you to section 5.2 of the general terms of the IPC Code of Practice, which clearly cites “NO STOPPING” as one of several permitted sets of Terms and Conditions. In respect of a grace period not being allowed, we must advise that a grace period is given in respect of vehicles which are permitted to park, for example, in a pay car park to allow motorists to make a valid payment. However, in this case, the vehicle was not permitted to park or stop where it did; the signs on site clearly state ‘No Stopping,’ therefore no grace period was applicable. This is in full compliance with the IPC Code of Practice.
2. Compliance with IPC Code of Practice: Please note that this site (Airport access roads) and its signage have been audited by the International Parking Community (IPC) and that the signage complies with the IPC Code of Practice. The signage is present upon entry to the airport and throughout the roadways on site. The vehicles utilised on site are marked clearly with company livery which fully identifies the company and clearly states, “Traffic Enforcement”.
3. Charge Notice and Debt Recovery: We are not pursuing the Charge Notice on the basis of any company’s loss but as a result of a contractual breach of the Terms and Conditions, observed on the day in question. Any motorist who familiarised themselves with the signage on site would be notified of the relevant charges. Specifically, the signage states, “No Stopping”. Furthermore, the amount of the charge now stands at £170.00 as it has escalated to debt recovery. When the Charge Notice was first issued, the charge of £100.00 was offered to be reduced to £60.00 if paid within 14 days. The Charge Notice was then appealed; this appeal was not accepted, and as such, upon rejection, the offer to pay the reduced fee of £60.00 within 14 days was made again. Subsequently, an appeal was made to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS), which was unsuccessful. When the IAS appeal was rejected, 14 days were allowed to pay the Charge of £100.00. No payment was made within the allowed timescales; as such, the Charge Notice has now escalated to debt recovery, incurring further charges. The fact that further charges would be incurred if Debt Recovery action was required was clearly advised both in the Notice to Keeper sent on XXX and the appeal rejection sent on XXX.

 The fine is therefore upheld by VCS.

 It is worth noting that the airport is clearly marked with double red line which mean no stopping at any time and there is signage in place across the site (150+ signs) to warn drivers of the penalties for stopping illegally.

Anyone coming to the airport is encouraged to plan ahead and as a regular traveller, you will be familiar with the site already. We do have a free up to 1 hour waiting zone and a regular bus service between the terminal and the waiting zone which is the safest option for those passengers who do not wish to incur pick up/drop off charges. Our website provides plenty of details on car parking, tariffs and useful maps, while google maps also offers direction options to each car park. https://www.bristolairport.co.uk/parking/. I hope this information is useful for managing future travel.

 I understand that this is not the outcome you were hoping for, however, we and our agents strive to adopt a consistent and fair approach to support the safety of our customers and staff.

 Yours sincerely

Coupon-mad

Reply.  Tear them off a strip. Utter rubbish.  Make yourself a thorn in his side.

Imnotpaying

You'd better be quick.  OTPP are selling off Bristol Airport, according to media rumours.

Spottydog65

Afternoon everyone. Having not recevied any replies to my emails to dcblegal from end Nov, at all!, I have now been issued with county court papers. I've had nothing prior to this. Can you point me in the direction of next steps?
TIA