How to contest an alleged motoring offence

WYSPECIAL

Most likely outcome, depending on driving history, is the offer of a course or a FPN of 3 points and £100 fine. If he doesn't want to accept the offer then it's magistrates course to argue his case. If you have legal advice on your insurance give them a ring but they will almost certainly say take the offer of a course/points

Since traffic lights are on red longer than any other colour to argue that because it wasn't working he assumed it was green and he had right of way seems a weak defence. The obvious thing to do if no lights are working is stop, treat the junction as give way and only proceed when safe to do so. For now all you can do is submit the driver information and wait. As others have said it's not exactly the crime of the century.

Okell

Ectophile said:

Nerms89 said:

Thank you, to everyone for their thoughts (some appreciated more than others).

Didn't mean to make so many of you angry! But I really appreciate the person who said "everyone makes mistakes"...because that's all it was.

I haven't for one moment suggested we 'won't do the right thing' so some of you need to calm down! 

Anyway, thanks again! Best wishes! Nearly Christmas!

Do remember that most people think that their driving is above average (which is obviously impossible).  So when you get snide remarks, remember that those people aren't as good drivers as they think they are.

Depending on what you mean by "average" and what you measure it by reference to, isn't it obviously possible for most drivers to be better than average?

If you are referring to the mean and your reference is the number of accidents over a period of time (or the number of speeding offences or the number of jumped lights or the number of insurance claims or whatever etc etc) I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that a disproportionally small number of drivers are responsible for a disproportionally large number of "incidents".

Which, if true, would mean that most drivers are better than average.

(It would be the opposite of income distribution where most people earn less than the mean.)

It would be interresting to know from someone like @DullGreyGuy if this is something that is observed in real life by the insurance industry.

DullGreyGuy

Okell said:

Ectophile said:

Nerms89 said:

Thank you, to everyone for their thoughts (some appreciated more than others).

Didn't mean to make so many of you angry! But I really appreciate the person who said "everyone makes mistakes"...because that's all it was.

I haven't for one moment suggested we 'won't do the right thing' so some of you need to calm down! 

Anyway, thanks again! Best wishes! Nearly Christmas!

Do remember that most people think that their driving is above average (which is obviously impossible).  So when you get snide remarks, remember that those people aren't as good drivers as they think they are.

Depending on what you mean by "average" and what you measure it by reference to, isn't it obviously possible for most drivers to be better than average?

If you are referring to the mean and your reference is the number of accidents over a period of time (or the number of speeding offences or the number of jumped lights or the number of insurance claims or whatever etc etc) I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that a disproportionally small number of drivers are responsible for a disproportionally large number of "incidents".

Which, if true, would mean that most drivers are better than average.

(It would be the opposite of income distribution where most people earn less than the mean.)

It would be interresting to know from someone like @DullGreyGuy if this is something that is observed in real life by the insurance industry.

As you imply it really depends on how you want to define "good driver", what the scale range is and if by average you intend to use mean, modus or median. I'd argue things like "speeding offences" would be a poor measure because thats as much a proxy of where and when you are driving and how many speed cameras you pass. It also doesn't consider what mileage you are doing... my aunt was a terrible driver but had a clean licence etc but that in part was because if she drove twice a year it would be unusual. 

By definition modus and mean can result in most being above/below average with salary being the classic example. median by definition means its a 50/50 distribution above and below average.

In insurance you do see concentration, so someone who's had one claim is statistically notably higher to have another claim than someone who's not had any however this doesn't really correlate to "bad driving" as it can also mean they park in a carpark with far too smaller spaces and it keeps getting clipped when parked and unattended. Similarly you get the old joke comment of "I've never had any accidents but see plenty in my rear view mirror" implying they are causing accidents with their bad driving but the driver they've cut up swerves to miss them but hits the barrier or breaks in time but the car behind them doesn't. The true cause of the problem retains a clean record.  

Exodi

DullGreyGuy said:
Similarly you get the old joke comment of "I've never had any accidents but see plenty in my rear view mirror" implying they are causing accidents with their bad driving but the driver they've cut up swerves to miss them but hits the barrier or breaks in time but the car behind them doesn't. The true cause of the problem retains a clean record.  

Probably the poster child of that joke (as can be seen from the comments on the video): 

(first 5 seconds are still, the video isn't frozen)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWuK-fi-D_w

Belenus

Most of us have two legs. A few have only one leg or no leg due to birth defects, accidents amputations etc. 

Therefore the average number of legs is slightly less than two.

Therefore almost everyone has more than the average number of legs.

A very tiny number have three legs but these are removed at birth as they usually belong to a dead parasitic twin who didn't form properly.

Exodi

Belenus said:

Most of us have two legs. A few have only one leg or no leg due to birth defects, accidents amputations etc. 

Therefore the average number of legs is slightly less than two.

Therefore almost everyone has more than the average number of legs.

A very tiny number have three legs but these are removed at birth as they usually belong to a dead parasitic twin who didn't form properly.

A good example to highlight the problem with averages, but also highlights @DullGreyGuy 's point about mean/mode/median. While the mean average legs may be 1.99 (or whatever) in your example above (which yes, would mean that most people have more legs than (the mean) average), the median or mode average would be 2. It's why different types of averages are used for different things.

But again, a good example to counter the earlier implication that it's impossible for a majority to be above average (though I also agree with the general sentiment of their reply - the Dunning Kruger effect in essence. When I'm in the car with my elderly stepdad driving, he's constantly pulling out from junctions in front of people or cutting them up on roundabouts - yet simultaneously maintains that he is a good drive as he doesn't have accidents).

Okell

Belenus said:

... A very tiny number have three legs but these are removed at birth as they usually belong to a dead parasitic twin who didn't form properly.

Don't start insulting and being unkind to Manx people!