How to contest an alleged motoring offence

Car_54

Mildly_Miffed said:

 there.

His main defence seems to be that he was driving without due care and attention and/or carelessly. And his insurers will find CD10/20/30 (3-9pts in court) to be much more serious offences than a 3pt TS10 fixed penalty.

It appears from the OP that the NIP alleges a red light offence. He hasn't been warned about a possible careless driving offence, so how could he be charged with it, let alone convicted?

Nasqueron

Arunmor said:

If the light was not showing red then it was showing no lights, it would be incumbent on him to check the other lights available.  If all lights were out you need to be very careful and treat it as a four way junction.

Sounds like driving with undue care and attention.  Just fill in the NIP and then decide whether to challenge it.

Having said all that I really dislike this new fad of reporting minor traffic transgressions.  Just look on youtube there are lots of videos taken by the righteous!

There are so many bad and dangerous drivers out there that the police have no chance to catch even a tiny %, reporting dangerous drivers so they get points and a fine and realise they're not as immune as they think is no bad thing. We have a one way street near us, narrow residential, 20mph, going the wrong way up cuts out a trip through a shopping area which is usually crawling and has 2 sets of lights to go through but obviously it endangers people not expecting the car and the drivers usually rag it up there in case a car comes in the right way. I always report these if I see them (use phone footage) as I hope it will discourage people from doing it and perhaps prevent a crash or even injury/fatality. As for the rest, red light jumpers cause delays for other people, especially at roadworks and of course can result in crashes, middle lane hogs cause delays etc. There is a road near me I used to commute down in the bike lanes with a junction that was changed 4 years ago to ban turns up a side road to protect the bike lane and pedestrians and people still routinely turn up it and I happily report them too, though usually blocking them is enough as the cars behind "encourage" them to obey the law. 

MattMattMattUK

Car_54 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

 there.

His main defence seems to be that he was driving without due care and attention and/or carelessly. And his insurers will find CD10/20/30 (3-9pts in court) to be much more serious offences than a 3pt TS10 fixed penalty.

It appears from the OP that the NIP alleges a red light offence. He hasn't been warned about a possible careless driving offence, so how could he be charged with it, let alone convicted?

By trying to contest the penalty for running a red light by saying that he was driving without due care and attention and so did not notice/ignored the second light which was red. 

Car_54

MattMattMattUK said:

Car_54 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

 there.

His main defence seems to be that he was driving without due care and attention and/or carelessly. And his insurers will find CD10/20/30 (3-9pts in court) to be much more serious offences than a 3pt TS10 fixed penalty.

It appears from the OP that the NIP alleges a red light offence. He hasn't been warned about a possible careless driving offence, so how could he be charged with it, let alone convicted?

By trying to contest the penalty for running a red light by saying that he was driving without due care and attention and so did not notice/ignored the second light which was red. 

It might not be the best defence in the world, but it could only get him convicted of the red light offence, not careless.

TooManyPoints

Not "obvious" why he didn't first check the other lights.

Indeed. The first thing I do on the very rare occasions I encounter a set of traffic lights showing no light at all is to look round for others. There is always more than one set (at least, I've never seen a junction where there was not). The very last thing I would do is drive straight on. Only if there were no others working would I consider crossing the junction and that would be after I had stopped and assessed the situation properly.

That's the view a court would take and in the almost inevitable event that your husband was convicted, it will cost him something in the region of £1,000 in the form of a fine, surcharge and costs.

Okell

Nerms89 said:

...  my husband is driving along a road with 2 lanes and comes to a junction. At the junction, the traffic light on his side (the left side) is completely out, no colour at all. The light on the right hand side of the 2nd, outer lane is red. Obviously, he's looking at the light in his lane and drives through the junction to carry on straight ahead...

Your husband is almost certainly bang to rights.  Why did he think that the light on the right did not apply to him?

It might help your husband if you could provide a link to a Google Maps Street View of the junction so that others can see the layout of the junction and how the lights apply to the two different lanes.  Perhaps the light in the right hand lane did not apply to the lane your husband was in.  But to understand that we need to see the junction.  (If you can't post links as a new member just say it's at the junction of xxx road and yyy street in zzz city travelling north/south/east/west.  Or you could post the video somewhere like Youtube)

As others have said, your husband cannot appeal agaianst or challenge a NIP/request for driver details.  He can only name the driver and see what the response is.  If doesn't name the driver he commits a more serious offence.

LightFlare

Everyone makes mistakes - it’s not exactly crime of the century.

Any driver who says they have never made one - frankly isn’t being  honest

Just make sure he complies with all the documents with regard to naming the driver etc

Nerms89

Thank you, to everyone for their thoughts (some appreciated more than others).

Didn't mean to make so many of you angry! But I really appreciate the person who said "everyone makes mistakes"...because that's all it was.

I haven't for one moment suggested we 'won't do the right thing' so some of you need to calm down! 

Anyway, thanks again! Best wishes! Nearly Christmas!

Ectophile

Nerms89 said:

Thank you, to everyone for their thoughts (some appreciated more than others).

Didn't mean to make so many of you angry! But I really appreciate the person who said "everyone makes mistakes"...because that's all it was.

I haven't for one moment suggested we 'won't do the right thing' so some of you need to calm down! 

Anyway, thanks again! Best wishes! Nearly Christmas!

Do remember that most people think that their driving is above average (which is obviously impossible).  So when you get snide remarks, remember that those people aren't as good drivers as they think they are.

Aretnap

MattMattMattUK said:

Car_54 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

 there.

His main defence seems to be that he was driving without due care and attention and/or carelessly. And his insurers will find CD10/20/30 (3-9pts in court) to be much more serious offences than a 3pt TS10 fixed penalty.

It appears from the OP that the NIP alleges a red light offence. He hasn't been warned about a possible careless driving offence, so how could he be charged with it, let alone convicted?

By trying to contest the penalty for running a red light by saying that he was driving without due care and attention and so did not notice/ignored the second light which was red. 

Assuming the original NIP didn't mention driving without due care and attention, and that is now more than 14 days since the incident, he can tell the police that he was driving blindfolded at 100mph if he wants to, and they still won't be able to prosecute him for DWDCA. It's the offence (or offences) which is printed on the NIP or nothing.