How to contest an alleged motoring offence

Nerms89

My husband has received a letter in the post from a local police constabulary. It is titled 'Notice of intended prosecution & requirement for driver information'.

The police have used OpSnap footage (dashcam footage sent in by members of the general public who think they've seen something illegal happen) to claim my husband has run a red light.

We've requested to see the footage, which arrived via email yesterday. In it, my husband is driving along a road with 2 lanes and comes to a junction. At the junction, the traffic light on his side (the left side) is completely out, no colour at all. The light on the right hand side of the 2nd, outer lane is red. Obviously, he's looking at the light in his lane and drives through the junction to carry on straight ahead.

Do you rhino we have grounds to dispute the claim he's allegedly run a red?

My husband said he saw the light was out, checked no one was coming, and carried on.

Any advice on how to word a letter of dispute would be greatly appreciated.

Arunmor

If the light was not showing red then it was showing no lights, it would be incumbent on him to check the other lights available.  If all lights were out you need to be very careful and treat it as a four way junction.

Sounds like driving with undue care and attention.  Just fill in the NIP and then decide whether to challenge it.

Having said all that I really dislike this new fad of reporting minor traffic transgressions.  Just look on youtube there are lots of videos taken by the righteous!

400ixl

From your description, the other traffic light on the other lane was for the same direction he was going (as in it wasn't a turn filter light). In which case he should have followed what that was telling him and stopped. Obviously this is from your description, but if it is the case then unfortunately he has made the wrong and unsafe decision.

If you encounter a 4 way junction with no lights at all then you should come to a halt and then only proceed with caution. You description says he took a glance and just carried on at a speed.

I don't see any grounds for appeal from your description.

Hopefully its just a traffic signal TS code offence and not a due care and attention one.

TooManyPoints

At the moment all he is being asked is to provide the driver's details. He must do that regardless of any issues he has with the alleged offence itself.

Once he's done that the police will decide what, if any action to take. They may offer a course or a fixed penalty. However, if the "time into red" is excessive they may prosecute him in court. This last option could take up to six months.

Whatever they do, it is unlikely in the extreme they will enter into correspondence about the matter. If they make an out-of-court offer and your husband does no want to accept it he will be prosecuted and his remedy is to plead not guilty and face a trial.

Once he has named himself as driver, if he does not hear from the police within about a month he should check that his response has been received. If it has not he will face a charge of "failing to provide driver's details." This is a serious charge which carries six points, a hefty fine and an insurance crippling endorsement code which will see his premiums rocket for up to five years.

mr_stripey

Arunmor said:

If the light was not showing red then it was showing no lights, it would be incumbent on him to check the other lights available.  If all lights were out you need to be very careful and treat it as a four way junction.

Sounds like driving with undue care and attention.  Just fill in the NIP and then decide whether to challenge it.

Having said all that I really dislike this new fad of reporting minor traffic transgressions.  Just look on youtube there are lots of videos taken by the righteous!

I don't mind it. I see plenty of bad driving every day on my commute. If some of these end up getting prosecuted after being caught on dashcam I'm all for it!

elsien

Arunmor said:

If the light was not showing red then it was showing no lights, it would be incumbent on him to check the other lights available.  If all lights were out you need to be very careful and treat it as a four way junction.

Sounds like driving with undue care and attention.  Just fill in the NIP and then decide whether to challenge it.

Having said all that I really dislike this new fad of reporting minor traffic transgressions.  Just look on youtube there are lots of videos taken by the righteous!

As an aside, I live in a one-way street where cars sometimes come down the wrong way. Mostly it’s a mistake, I stop them to explain and everyone goes on their way.
Very occasionally someone gets abusive. Those are the only ones I report. 

Exodi

400ixl says, I think the context is key here. If the light on the other side was applying the same rules as the lane he was in (as opposed to the right lane being for a right hand turn only) I think he'll find it very difficult to explain why he ignored the light that was working. I'm sure you both know this though.

DullGreyGuy

Arunmor said:

Having said all that I really dislike this new fad of reporting minor traffic transgressions.  Just look on youtube there are lots of videos taken by the righteous!

I'm all for it as long as the footage is clear; having seen the mountain of videos on Twitter from cyclists alleging not leaving enough room by passing vehicles but many are using fisheye lenses etc which makes it near impossible to really tell how close the vehicle was

Mildly_Miffed

Nerms89 said:

My husband has received a letter in the post from a local police constabulary. It is titled 'Notice of intended prosecution & requirement for driver information'.

If your husband has received this in his name, and he's being asked who's driving, then he needs to say it was him. Then he can think about how to deal with it when he gets the penalty through.

The police have used OpSnap footage (dashcam footage sent in by members of the general public who think they've seen something illegal happen) to claim my husband has run a red light.

We've requested to see the footage, which arrived via email yesterday. In it, my husband is driving along a road with 2 lanes and comes to a junction. At the junction, the traffic light on his side (the left side) is completely out, no colour at all. The light on the right hand side of the 2nd, outer lane is red. Obviously, he's looking at the light in his lane and drives through the junction to carry on straight ahead.

Do you rhino we have grounds to dispute the claim he's allegedly run a red?

My husband said he saw the light was out, checked no one was coming, and carried on.

Any advice on how to word a letter of dispute would be greatly appreciated.

So the video shows he did drive through the junction whilst the lights were showing red?

What's he planning on disputing? That not ALL lights were working?
Tough.

He can't have observed very carefully if he missed the one that was.

If they offer him a course, he should take it.
If they offer him a fixed penalty, he should take it.
The way to dispute is to refuse a fixed penalty or course offer, take a court date, and present the evidence there.

He won't win, because the video shows him doing precisely what he denies doing.

His main defence seems to be that he was driving without due care and attention and/or carelessly. And his insurers will find CD10/20/30 (3-9pts in court) to be much more serious offences than a 3pt TS10 fixed penalty.

Herzlos

mr_stripey said:

Arunmor said:

If the light was not showing red then it was showing no lights, it would be incumbent on him to check the other lights available.  If all lights were out you need to be very careful and treat it as a four way junction.

Sounds like driving with undue care and attention.  Just fill in the NIP and then decide whether to challenge it.

Having said all that I really dislike this new fad of reporting minor traffic transgressions.  Just look on youtube there are lots of videos taken by the righteous!

I don't mind it. I see plenty of bad driving every day on my commute. If some of these end up getting prosecuted after being caught on dashcam I'm all for it!

I think so many people don't care about bad driving as they know how unlikely it is for the police to spot them. Particularly for stuff like close passing of cyclists.  I see cars running red lights pretty much daily.

So possibly some will behave a bit better knowing that people can submit dash cam footage of the worst of it, and with about 20% of cars having one the odds are a bit higher.

user1977

Nerms89 said:

The light on the right hand side of the 2nd, outer lane is red. Obviously, he's looking at the light in his lane and drives through the junction to carry on straight ahead.

Not "obvious" why he didn't first check the other lights.