Wondering if this is suspicious, re buyer?

FreeBear

Jellynailer said: In the meantime, I would phone your region's Land Registry office, tell them your concerns and ask if there is a way you can prevent anyone registering a new title without a special code that only LR and you know.  I don't know if this is possible but it is worth trying to put your mind at rest.

Land Registry already have an alert system in place. Once registered, the system sends you an email any time there is an application lodged (charging order, change of ownership, etc). You then have opportunity to put a block on the application.

I've registered, but have never had any alerts, so can't say if the system works or not.

lesley2020

Thanks - yes, as soon as I heard about the LR alert thing I did sign up for it.  Great service.

lesley2020

I just get alerts to say.... there has been nothing over the last 6 months to alert you about...

EssexHebridean

Jellynailer said:

Check with Which scams = free service.  They did once post about a scam involving renting a property, transferring the title to the dodgy renters name and then selling it before the owner was aware.  

Like you I am suspicious and wonder if the plan is to obtain as much info in the pre purchase stages, including an official copy of the deeds, delay the purchase while the property is reregistered and sold.  Do let us know the result of your enquiries about the solicitor and whether your solicitor can obtain proper ID.  

If you get an address but are still unsure I suggest you ask Action Fraud or the Police in that town for help to check it out.  Scammers can fake anything these days so a sham utility bill is unlikely to be too difficult for them.

In the meantime, I would phone your region's Land Registry office, tell them your concerns and ask if there is a way you can prevent anyone registering a new title without a special code that only LR and you know.  I don't know if this is possible but it is worth trying to put your mind at rest.

Oh dear, I may have overthunk this but hope my ramblings are helpful.

How do you think obtaining a copy of the title would make it possible for Mr Dodgy - if indeed dodgy he is - to register the property into his name?  There is paperwork required to enable that to happen - if Mr Dodgy was also able to create a fake TR1, and persuade the OP’s mortgage lender (assuming they have one) to send an END1 in spite of the mortgage not having been redeemed, then perhaps, but if he was so inclined he wouldn’t need to go to the trouble of sticking his head above the parapet by making his interest in the property known, indeed, he would be foolish to do so!

No - there is no such code that can be set up with the LR - but as said the alert system is robust and is something that all homeowners should sign up for. Indeed, if an attempt to register a property is made the alert is sent within around 30 seconds of that application being lodged - so an immediate chance to challenge. 

I don’t think thr OP should really be calling the Police or Action Fraud with details of someone who may be entirely innocent based just on “they seem a bit dodgy” either to be honest - if it seems there is signs of an actual scam being perpetrated then obviously that is a good route to take but it would be a pretty unpleasant thing to do to someone if no scam was evident. 

@FreeBear - I work for the firm that did my conveyancing when we bought our current house, so it fell to me to do my own SDLT submission and LR Registration application (yes, every bit as surreal as you might think!) . I registered for the LR Alerts before submitting the AP1 and docs for registration, then hit the submit button and noted the time I had done so, assuming that it would be interesting to see how long it took for the alert to come through, in fact, I didn’t even have time to write the time down - it was also most immediate! Very impressive! 😁

user1977

Jellynailer said:

I may have overthunk this but hope my ramblings are helpful.

Once again, they are quite the opposite!

RHemmings

EssexHebridean said:

No - there is no such code that can be set up with the LR - but as said the alert system is robust and is something that all homeowners should sign up for. Indeed, if an attempt to register a property is made the alert is sent within around 30 seconds of that application being lodged - so an immediate chance to challenge. 

I think that what was being described before was putting a restriction on the title. As per here: 

https://www.gov.uk/protect-land-property-from-fraud

Put a restriction on your title

You can stop HM Land Registry registering a sale or mortgage on your property unless a conveyancer or solicitor certifies the application was made by you.

Your conveyancer or solicitor may charge you for providing a certificate if one is required by a restriction on your property.

This may give the OP more peace of mind, but I'm not sure there's enough real evidence of dodgy intent to justify it. Though, I will say that the amounts of money involved in buying houses and the percentage of the typical person's wealth that is tied up in a house will not unreasonably lead to caution. 

user1977

RHemmings said:

EssexHebridean said:

No - there is no such code that can be set up with the LR - but as said the alert system is robust and is something that all homeowners should sign up for. Indeed, if an attempt to register a property is made the alert is sent within around 30 seconds of that application being lodged - so an immediate chance to challenge. 

I think that what was being described before was putting a restriction on the title. As per here: 

https://www.gov.uk/protect-land-property-from-fraud

Put a restriction on your title

You can stop HM Land Registry registering a sale or mortgage on your property unless a conveyancer or solicitor certifies the application was made by you.

Your conveyancer or solicitor may charge you for providing a certificate if one is required by a restriction on your property.

This may give the OP more peace of mind, but I'm not sure there's enough real evidence of dodgy intent to justify it. Though, I will say that the amounts of money involved in buying houses and the percentage of the typical person's wealth that is tied up in a house will not unreasonably lead to caution. 

We've had multiple threads here involving difficulties with such restrictions though, as solicitors are (perhaps understandably) reluctant to certify that you are definitely you.

And as mentioned above, I have no idea why people think the OP's situation involves a risk of their ostensible buyer "stealing" the property from them?

EssexHebridean

I think that was mainly just the one person, to be honest! 

Regardless of any dodgy intent in the OP’s case, I stand by my statement that all homeowners should be signed up to thr alerts system. It takes moments, and the key thing is protects against is erroneous applications ending up causing issues. Human error being FAR more likely to cause problems than someone using a publicly available document to “steal” the property! 

Generally speaking a straightforward restriction put in place by the owner of a property isn’t too difficult to remove - and would be done by way of an application along with the  application for registration when a property is sold. The complex ones tend to be when they are very old or relate to lenders of creditors who perhaps no longer exist or have been through several changes of identity since the restriction was placed. It’s obviously still another thing to be discussed, any possible issues outlined, and may make things a little more complicated along the line.

bobster2

user1977 said:

And as mentioned above, I have no idea why people think the OP's situation involves a risk of their ostensible buyer "stealing" the property from them?

Indeed. If I recall - the suspicious aspects were just that the EA (not OP) thought the buyer looked a bit different to his passport photo (as many of us do!) and that his address evidence was a non-utility bill. Can think of many reasons why people lack utility bills in their name.

Jellynailer

bobster2 said:

user1977 said:

And as mentioned above, I have no idea why people think the OP's situation involves a risk of their ostensible buyer "stealing" the property from them?

Indeed. If I recall - the suspicious aspects were just that the EA (not OP) thought the buyer looked a bit different to his passport photo (as many of us do!) and that his address evidence was a non-utility bill. Can think of many reasons why people lack utility bills in their name.

My mantra for assessing imputed intentions of others is borrowed from Oscar Wilde = Once is unfortunate, twice is sheer carelessness.  If I get a third alarm bell, thats it for me.  We have two problematic ID 'proofs'. Following up the checks that others above have recommended will, hopefully, reveal a third reason to reject the offer or confirm that the worries have been unfounded.

Re the utility bills, how likely is it for someone without these to have the wherewithal to fund a house purchase?  Its not impossible e.g. has been living abroad but so did I and could produce my bills from the other country.  However, on the probability scale, I still endorse the OP's concerns in the absence of further information.

By the way, thanks to all who clarified the Land Registry issue prompted by my previous comments.  The information provided is so useful.