Car buying from a dealership

Peco141

ontheroad1970 said:

Peco141 said:

Car_54 said:

Peco141 said:

Iceweasel said:

Why is finance a no?
All dealers make money from you opting for finance so don't expect any reduction due to offering to pay cash.
The word NEVER to use is 'discount' - what you want is a 'buyer incentive' they take many forms - such as 'dealer promotion' or 'manufacturer's contribution'.
The end of the month is the best time as the salesmen want to up their monthly figures and/or achieve their target sales.
Checkout the finance conditions - the clever thing to do is to go for the finance to get the reduction - and then pay it of after a week- within the legally allowed  'cooling off' period.
That way you get the money off and the dealers are happy - it's win win for both.
Some salesmen will actually suggest such a procedure as they have nothing to lose by it and everything to gain.
I'm very much old-school and for years paid in cash - I'd never had a loan or finance in my life, apart from a mortgage - that was until my grandson sat down and explained the above, successfully allying all my reluctance and fears of getting into debt.
On my last car I achieved 23% off the list price.
I managed to get both a promotion and an incentive - but no discount. Ha ha. 

Did you have to ask for these incentives and promotions?

I have seen a car I like, but it's 5 hours away however on the main Kia website and comes as Kia "Approved" rather than "Assured" which is a further positive.

Am I living in dream land?

Possibly, if you’re serious about buying a car 5 hours away.

They may deliver, but it will be down to you to get it back to the dealer if (when?) something goes wrong. We frequently see posts from buyers with exactly that problem. The general consensus is “Don’t”.

I'd have thought buying it directly from Kia would mean I'd have some flexibility in where I take it with any problems that may arise.

A question for the salesman I guess.

This will assist for repairs under the warranty but won't help if you lose faith in your purchase and want to reject it.  In that situation, legally, the dealer can insist that you get the car to them at your own expense.

Sorry, do you mean if I'm seeking a refund or something?

Peco141

DrEskimo said:

Don’t get dragged into only discussing the finance implications. Keep the focus on the list price of the car. 

I bought a used Tesla Model S a couple of weeks back from a reputable independent dealer. It was one of the cheaper examples of the model I was after after watching the market for a good couple of months, and I negotiated £2k off list without much effort. I paid cash, didn’t even discuss finance so certainly wasn’t a factor for me haggling. 

Appreciate the advice.  I will try to play this right, if it doesn't sell before I get a chance to make the next move.

born_again

Peco141 said:

I'd have thought buying it directly from Kia would mean I'd have some flexibility in where I take it with any problems that may arise.

A question for the salesman I guess.

Kia only have one dealership (Bolton) All the rest are franchises. So your only hope of it being taken back (rejection) would be within the same franchise.

You can use any kia dealer for warranty work though.

Peco141

I can’t see any reason why I would reject a new car I’d bought that’s in warranty. I think what we’re suggesting here is if some freak situation occurred I would need to get it back to the dealer I bought it from which although I’d be buying direct from the Kai website the car is actually sold buy a Kia franchise in Peterborough.

pennies are dropping as I write this. 🤣

born_again

Peco141 said:

I can’t see any reason why I would reject a new car I’d bought that’s in warranty. I think what we’re suggesting here is if some freak situation occurred I would need to get it back to the dealer I bought it from which although I’d be buying direct from the Kai website the car is actually sold buy a Kia franchise in Peterborough.

pennies are dropping as I write this. 🤣

Kia don't sell cars online.
You can build one & they will send this to a local dealer. But you are not making a online purchase, you are stll buying from the dealer.
Unlike other Marques where yoy can actually buy & pay online for a car.

ontheroad1970

Peco141 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

Peco141 said:

Car_54 said:

Peco141 said:

Iceweasel said:

Why is finance a no?
All dealers make money from you opting for finance so don't expect any reduction due to offering to pay cash.
The word NEVER to use is 'discount' - what you want is a 'buyer incentive' they take many forms - such as 'dealer promotion' or 'manufacturer's contribution'.
The end of the month is the best time as the salesmen want to up their monthly figures and/or achieve their target sales.
Checkout the finance conditions - the clever thing to do is to go for the finance to get the reduction - and then pay it of after a week- within the legally allowed  'cooling off' period.
That way you get the money off and the dealers are happy - it's win win for both.
Some salesmen will actually suggest such a procedure as they have nothing to lose by it and everything to gain.
I'm very much old-school and for years paid in cash - I'd never had a loan or finance in my life, apart from a mortgage - that was until my grandson sat down and explained the above, successfully allying all my reluctance and fears of getting into debt.
On my last car I achieved 23% off the list price.
I managed to get both a promotion and an incentive - but no discount. Ha ha. 

Did you have to ask for these incentives and promotions?

I have seen a car I like, but it's 5 hours away however on the main Kia website and comes as Kia "Approved" rather than "Assured" which is a further positive.

Am I living in dream land?

Possibly, if you’re serious about buying a car 5 hours away.

They may deliver, but it will be down to you to get it back to the dealer if (when?) something goes wrong. We frequently see posts from buyers with exactly that problem. The general consensus is “Don’t”.

I'd have thought buying it directly from Kia would mean I'd have some flexibility in where I take it with any problems that may arise.

A question for the salesman I guess.

This will assist for repairs under the warranty but won't help if you lose faith in your purchase and want to reject it.  In that situation, legally, the dealer can insist that you get the car to them at your own expense.

Sorry, do you mean if I'm seeking a refund or something?

Yes.  Even if following the contents of Consumer law, you are legally responsible for getting the goods to the company that sold you them

prowla

DrEskimo said:

Don’t get dragged into only discussing the finance implications. Keep the focus on the list price of the car.

I once went to check out a car I was interested in buying and the salesman kept telling me I should look at the monthly payment, not the APR and total amount repaid; I repeatedly asked him but he he stuck to his guns.

I didn't buy it.

Another time I went to a main dealer and told him i wanted a particular one and asked what could he do on price; he said nothing doing but he would chuck in some mats; I repeatedly told him I was going to buy one but he wouldn't budge.

I went and bought the same car elsewhere and his face dropped when I went back there to buy some mats.

(They accidentally gave me two sets of mats, but I did point that out and gave them one set back!)

Goudy

DrEskimo said:

Don’t get dragged into only discussing the finance implications. Keep the focus on the list price of the car. 

Yes, I wouldn't get drawn in to the monthly payments sales people wave in your face but there's a bit more to it than just invoice price.
They will often stretch the term longer to make them look lower and the longer they are, the more interest you pay.

Focus on the cost to change.
That includes any finance interest.

How much will it all cost you to get out of one car into the next as a total cost.

You need to keep that in mind, it's no good getting a grand off list if they are charging you 14% interest.
You'll be worse off than paying full list and something like 4.5%.

It can all get a bit complicated, especially if you are visiting different dealers and getting offered different deals, but keeping that cost to change in mind should help.

Generally speaking, the lower the invoice + the higher the trade in for your old car + the lowest interest rate will work out the cheapest.

If you are buying new, generally the interest rate is set (if you meet their conditions) but different manufacturers offer different rates. Some might give 0% if you can put down 50% deposit/trade in.
Also worth considering is, can you borrow that cheaper elsewhere, like the bank or building society. 

Next up would be trade in value.
Take your time and try a few "test" deals of likely purchases to see what they will allow.
There's no trick to it and you don't need to beat about the bush. If you think it's worth more tell them or ask them to do better. 

We're often too polite so say phrases like "can you", these have simple answers the dealers know they can use. like "no". Think about phrasing these questions to them carefully. Keep it pleasant though, smile a lot and be "open" to what they reply, no need to get the hump or defensive, that won't help.
 
Also check out the car buying sites, even if it's just to show the dealer what it could be worth if you sold it via one of those.

They may or may not be wriggle room on the invoice price.
With new, it'll often be advertised as discounted, if it is discounted, but there are schemes that give discounts for various professions and sometimes membership to certain clubs or organisations, so it's worth checking before hand.
There are some companies on the internet that discount cars, like Drive the Deal. Get a quote and show the dealer.

With used, the three points are usually more variable. 
Interest rates are usually a bit higher.
And screen price has a set "profit" build in which you want to try and eat into, so it's worth trying your best on that point.
Trade in's can be a bit more variable too, they might want to remarket yours themselves, so the same thing applies.

Peco141

Goudy said:

DrEskimo said:

Don’t get dragged into only discussing the finance implications. Keep the focus on the list price of the car. 

Yes, I wouldn't get drawn in to the monthly payments sales people wave in your face but there's a bit more to it than just invoice price.
They will often stretch the term longer to make them look lower and the longer they are, the more interest you pay.

Focus on the cost to change.
That includes any finance interest.

How much will it all cost you to get out of one car into the next as a total cost.

You need to keep that in mind, it's no good getting a grand off list if they are charging you 14% interest.
You'll be worse off than paying full list and something like 4.5%.

It can all get a bit complicated, especially if you are visiting different dealers and getting offered different deals, but keeping that cost to change in mind should help.

Generally speaking, the lower the invoice + the higher the trade in for your old car + the lowest interest rate will work out the cheapest.

If you are buying new, generally the interest rate is set (if you meet their conditions) but different manufacturers offer different rates. Some might give 0% if you can put down 50% deposit/trade in.
Also worth considering is, can you borrow that cheaper elsewhere, like the bank or building society. 

Next up would be trade in value.
Take your time and try a few "test" deals of likely purchases to see what they will allow.
There's no trick to it and you don't need to beat about the bush. If you think it's worth more tell them or ask them to do better. 

We're often too polite so say phrases like "can you", these have simple answers the dealers know they can use. like "no". Think about phrasing these questions to them carefully. Keep it pleasant though, smile a lot and be "open" to what they reply, no need to get the hump or defensive, that won't help.
 
Also check out the car buying sites, even if it's just to show the dealer what it could be worth if you sold it via one of those.

They may or may not be wriggle room on the invoice price.
With new, it'll often be advertised as discounted, if it is discounted, but there are schemes that give discounts for various professions and sometimes membership to certain clubs or organisations, so it's worth checking before hand.
There are some companies on the internet that discount cars, like Drive the Deal. Get a quote and show the dealer.

With used, the three points are usually more variable. 
Interest rates are usually a bit higher.
And screen price has a set "profit" build in which you want to try and eat into, so it's worth trying your best on that point.
Trade in's can be a bit more variable too, they might want to remarket yours themselves, so the same thing applies.

Many thanks for taking the time to write this detailed response.

I've not gone back to the dealer just yet but plan to by the end of the week. If the car is still available.

At that point I'll need to ask for clarification of where I take the car should anything go wrong.  If I'm satisfied with the options I'll then go on to ask what he can do about the 'on the road price' of the car which currently sits at £41,995.00.  For example can he get it closer to 40k.

I'm in two minds whether to ask if there would be any 'dealer contribution' if I sought a cash deal (no finance) or whether I go straight for a finance deal in order to get him to reduce the 'on the road' price as suggested by a couple of replies in this thread.

Either way I won't commit to a purchase until the following criteria has been met:

• Reassurance of where I can go if something were to go wrong (I can't be travelling for 5 hours to deal with issues)
• A significant reduction in the on road price (closer to 40k)
  
• The free delivery charge (buyer incentive) previously suggested by salesman is confirmed
• And most importantly, whether I can pay off the full "on the road amount" (not the Total amount payable on the finance quotation) and therefore settle the PCP contract early (within the first few weeks) without incurring any early settlement fees.
  

The last point might be the most challenging to get confirmation on.

prowla

Peco141 said:

Goudy said:

DrEskimo said:

Don’t get dragged into only discussing the finance implications. Keep the focus on the list price of the car. 

Yes, I wouldn't get drawn in to the monthly payments sales people wave in your face but there's a bit more to it than just invoice price.
They will often stretch the term longer to make them look lower and the longer they are, the more interest you pay.

Focus on the cost to change.
That includes any finance interest.

How much will it all cost you to get out of one car into the next as a total cost.

You need to keep that in mind, it's no good getting a grand off list if they are charging you 14% interest.
You'll be worse off than paying full list and something like 4.5%.

It can all get a bit complicated, especially if you are visiting different dealers and getting offered different deals, but keeping that cost to change in mind should help.

Generally speaking, the lower the invoice + the higher the trade in for your old car + the lowest interest rate will work out the cheapest.

If you are buying new, generally the interest rate is set (if you meet their conditions) but different manufacturers offer different rates. Some might give 0% if you can put down 50% deposit/trade in.
Also worth considering is, can you borrow that cheaper elsewhere, like the bank or building society. 

Next up would be trade in value.
Take your time and try a few "test" deals of likely purchases to see what they will allow.
There's no trick to it and you don't need to beat about the bush. If you think it's worth more tell them or ask them to do better. 

We're often too polite so say phrases like "can you", these have simple answers the dealers know they can use. like "no". Think about phrasing these questions to them carefully. Keep it pleasant though, smile a lot and be "open" to what they reply, no need to get the hump or defensive, that won't help.
 
Also check out the car buying sites, even if it's just to show the dealer what it could be worth if you sold it via one of those.

They may or may not be wriggle room on the invoice price.
With new, it'll often be advertised as discounted, if it is discounted, but there are schemes that give discounts for various professions and sometimes membership to certain clubs or organisations, so it's worth checking before hand.
There are some companies on the internet that discount cars, like Drive the Deal. Get a quote and show the dealer.

With used, the three points are usually more variable. 
Interest rates are usually a bit higher.
And screen price has a set "profit" build in which you want to try and eat into, so it's worth trying your best on that point.
Trade in's can be a bit more variable too, they might want to remarket yours themselves, so the same thing applies.

Many thanks for taking the time to write this detailed response.

I've not gone back to the dealer just yet but plan to by the end of the week. If the car is still available.

At that point I'll need to ask for clarification of where I take the car should anything go wrong.  If I'm satisfied with the options I'll then go on to ask what he can do about the 'on the road price' of the car which currently sits at £41,995.00.  For example can he get it closer to 40k.

I'm in two minds whether to ask if there would be any 'dealer contribution' if I sought a cash deal (no finance) or whether I go straight for a finance deal in order to get him to reduce the 'on the road' price as suggested by a couple of replies in this thread.

Either way I won't commit to a purchase until the following criteria has been met:

• Reassurance of where I can go if something were to go wrong (I can't be travelling for 5 hours to deal with issues)
• A significant reduction in the on road price (closer to 40k)
  
• The free delivery charge (buyer incentive) previously suggested by salesman is confirmed
• And most importantly, whether I can pay off the full "on the road amount" (not the Total amount payable on the finance quotation) and therefore settle the PCP contract early (within the first few weeks) without incurring any early settlement fees.
  

The last point might be the most challenging to get confirmation on.

£2k off £42k doesn't seem very much.