Buying online

JON05

Okell said:

@JON05 -  sorry, couple of other points.  Apologies if they've already been raised:

1.  I've assumed this is a distance purchase?  eg online or by telephone etc

2.  How did you pay?  Did you use either a credit or debit card, and if so, which?  This might get your money back with a bit less hassle

I paid online by debit card .

Did not realise the company actually imported the product from a different country. 

JON05

How do I exercise my right at the moment please. Sorry at moment I'm working lot of night shifts very tired.

Okell

JON05 said:

How do I exercise my right at the moment please. Sorry at moment I'm working lot of night shifts very tired.

I'll get back later today or over the w/e

Okell

JON05 said:

Okell said:

@JON05 -  sorry, couple of other points.  Apologies if they've already been raised:

1.  I've assumed this is a distance purchase?  eg online or by telephone etc

2.  How did you pay?  Did you use either a credit or debit card, and if so, which?  This might get your money back with a bit less hassle

I paid online by debit card .

Did not realise the company actually imported the product from a different country. 

@born_again -  don't know if you've been following this thread but can you say whether you think the OP would have a valid chargeback claim in respect of:

1.  treadmill being of unsatisfactory quality, and/or

2.  the seller not informing/not allowing the OP to exercise their right to cancel a distance contract

born_again

Chargebacks do not cover your legal rights, they are over & above, so 2 is out.

If it was faulty, when delivered it could be covered, but still leaves OP to return at their own cost that can not be reclaimed. Company would as usual get the chance to contest on the basis not faulty. Quality is subjective & not covered.

No disrespect to Op
There's hardly any resistance and if you don't go as slow as possible trying to keep balance you can fall .Incline is too dangerous to use so just having it level can just be manageable if you go nice and slow.

Sounds a lot like realising that this is not a product for them. Or it requires a lot of time to practise to actually get it to function in the way it should.


Personally looking at the video, which looks to be by someone who knows what they are doing, even they are hanging on for dear life & looks less than safe, especially if your balance is not 100%. Bad enough using a normal treadmill when you are not 100% sure footed.

JON05

born_again said:

Chargebacks do not cover your legal rights, they are over & above, so 2 is out.

If it was faulty, when delivered it could be covered, but still leaves OP to return at their own cost that can not be reclaimed. Company would as usual get the chance to contest on the basis not faulty. Quality is subjective & not covered.

No disrespect to Op
There's hardly any resistance and if you don't go as slow as possible trying to keep balance you can fall .Incline is too dangerous to use so just having it level can just be manageable if you go nice and slow.

Sounds a lot like realising that this is not a product for them. Or it requires a lot of time to practise to actually get it to function in the way it should.


Personally looking at the video, which looks to be by someone who knows what they are doing, even they are hanging on for dear life & looks less than safe, especially if your balance is not 100%. Bad enough using a normal treadmill when you are not 100% sure footed.

I've used the Ben Patric reverse treadmill a couple of months ago and was very stable and had resistance working. I  the Ben Patric one would be too expensive to have imported from USA. 

The difference between the reverse treadmill video on here and the one that I purchased is the unsteadiness of the whole frame. I've been on to slant board reviews and they are all saying the same regarding the reverse bike "it's unstable and offers hardly any resistance "

Biggest problem I've got now is if it's sent back the company may tell lies or sabotage it in some way.

From the reviews looks very dodgy company. 

Okell

@JON05 -  I'm drafting something for you to email the seller

Okell

[NB – I’m not a lawyer and the following is not legal advice.  It’s up to you if you want to follow it or not.  Alternatively you could try Citizens’ Advice]

 

@JON05 -  What you need to understand is that there are two pieces of legislation that protect you as a consumer.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015, that protects you against being sold goods of unsatisfactory quality, and The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 that allows purchasers of goods online to cancel the contract within 14 days for a full refund.

I believe you have a stronger claim under the latter rather than the former, but there’s nothing to stop you trying both approaches.

I suggest you email (and possibly write as belt and braces?) to the seller as follows:

 

“This is to notify you that I am exercising my statutory right under s29 of  The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)  to cancel order number [insert order number] for a full refund of the purchase price plus delivery fees.

Because your terms and conditions and other sales documents did not inform me of my statutory right to cancel and also did not tell me what the cost of returning the treadmill would be, the law does not permit you to make any deduction for use or loss of value from my refund, and you also must pay for return of the treadmill to you.

I await hearing from you to arrange collection of the treadmill and to confirm payment of my full refund

Alternatively and additionally I am also exercising my short-term right to reject the treadmill under s22 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) for a full refund of the purchase price plus delivery fees as being of unsatisfactory quality because [insert your reasons....].

You are responsible for paying for its return to you.

Again I await hearing from you to arrange collection of the treadmill and to confirm payment of my full refund.

Note that any of your terms and conditions that attempt to restrict or limit my statutory rights as exercised above are unenforceable and unlawful”

 (And include the links to the legislation as I've given them above)

Wait and see what suggestions you get from other posters (particularly @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head  ) but I’d suggest sending the above to them no later than the end of this weekend.

Let us know how they respond.  If they say no, you’ll have to decide if you want to sue them under the above legislation.  Unfortunately nobody can guarantee the result of a court case…

[Edit:  the bit about "Note that any of your terms and conditions that attempt to restrict etc " is aimed at their 24 hour notification of faults and use of original packaging etc]

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

... I don't know really but if they haven't all I would say OP is 100% entitled to the extended cancellation rights and return at trader's expense, if, by some surprise, they have put it in a durable medium but it's not on the website then it just casts a (small) bit of doubt. 

Slightly off-topic, but where does the "durable medium" come into all of this?

I know I've previously seen reference to it from @unholyangel and you and others, but where does that come from?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Okell said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

... I don't know really but if they haven't all I would say OP is 100% entitled to the extended cancellation rights and return at trader's expense, if, by some surprise, they have put it in a durable medium but it's not on the website then it just casts a (small) bit of doubt. 

Slightly off-topic, but where does the "durable medium" come into all of this?

I know I've previously seen reference to it from @unholyangel and you and others, but where does that come from?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/16

 

Okell said:

“This is to notify you that I am exercising my statutory right under s29 of  The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)  to cancel order number [insert order number] for a full refund of the purchase price plus delivery fees.

Because your terms and conditions and other sales documents did not inform me of my statutory right to cancel and also did not tell me what the cost of returning the treadmill would be, the law does not permit you to make any deduction for use or loss of value from my refund, and you also must pay for return of the treadmill to you.

I await hearing from you to arrange collection of the treadmill and to confirm payment of my full refund

Alternatively and additionally I am also exercising my short-term right to reject the treadmill under s22 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) for a full refund of the purchase price plus delivery fees as being of unsatisfactory quality because [insert your reasons....].

You are responsible for paying for its return to you.

Again I await hearing from you to arrange collection of the treadmill and to confirm payment of my full refund.

Note that any of your terms and conditions that attempt to restrict or limit my statutory rights as exercised above are unenforceable and unlawful”

I would stick to one or the other  

This is to notify you that I am exercising my statutory right under regulation 29 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 to cancel order number [insert order number] for a full refund of the original purchase price (including outward delivery charges).

As your terms and conditions and other sales documentation did not inform me of my statutory right to cancel in accordance with regulations 27-38 as required under paragraph (l) of Schedule 2 the legislation does not permit you to make any deduction from the refund as per regulation 34 paragraph (11).

Equally as you didn't provide the cost of return for an item which can not be returned via normal post as required under paragraph (m) of Schedule 2 you are to bear the cost of return as per regulation 35 paragraph (5)(b).

If you wish to arrange collection of the treadmill to reduce the cost of return please contact me to arrange such otherwise I shall provide evidence that the gods have been returned and a refund will be due within 14 days of that date as per regulation 34 paragraph (5)(b)

For your reference:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/2

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/35


I think it should be noted OP you are very likely to face resistance with this and may be required to send a letter before action and then follow through with small claims given the value is around £350-£400 with the return costs. Your legal position is strong as far as I can see but companies who fail to get the basics of the above correct are less likely to honour their obligations freely once it's pointed out what they are. For lesser amounts you'd hope they'd just give in to save the headache but as above it's a more sizeable order value. 

Equally if they don't collect the treadmill you will have to suffer the cost of return and add this to your claim. The CCRs require two actions from the consumer 1) to notify of the intention to cancel 2) to return the goods (unless the trader has offered to collect them). 

I understand this might all seem difficult so you have to weigh up what to do here