Invalid Warrant Forced Entry

cannugec5

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

I feel like some youtube warrant magna carta responses is where this conversation would go if on Facebook.

In the"real" world it wasn't a warrant where they rifle through your smalls it was just a warrant to get to an internal meter. Surely if it had been tampered with you wouldn't want the risk of an electrical fire or gas leak?

Did it really affect you that much?

You should raise a complaint and get some sort of goodwill gesture through that complaint or escalating to the ombudsman service should you wish.

Still illegal. You can't go around breaking into people's homes with invalid warrants? 

I think you are making a leap in claiming that it is illegal and that the warrant was invalid, especially as you have not seen the warrant.

The warrant as issued is very unlikely to say "Only if the property is unoccupied", or similar. Most likely it grants permission to enter dwelling X between two dates, possibly with a time stipulation (eg. the access must be between 08:00-18:00). Now it may have been granted on the basis that the dwelling was unoccupied, but that does not impact the validity of the warrant. It will also usually state a purpose, eg. check supply, change meter, options relating to energy supply etc. 

I have been told on the phone that it was issued for an empty property by both the energy company and the company that forced entry. But I have yet to see the warrant. 

These kinds of warrants are for access to a particular address, eg. "221B Baker Street, London", not "The home of Mr Sherlock Holmes". The warrant would have been issued when the premises was known or expected to be empty, however it subsequently being occupied does not invalidate the warrant. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

@MattMattMattUK
They can't force entry into a property in my name with a warrant that is not in my name? That would be bonkers surely?

The warrant is not in your name. They can exercise their legal right to entry using the warrant regardless of who is in occupation. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

They wont know it's changed hands so the warrant will supposedly be for the address as well as the person but probably either is fine for entry. Address is correct....in they go.

This has happened with some of our tenants over the years and we have had to deal with irate tenants and when checked the energy supplier does have the right to enter the property to read and inspect their property (the meters)

It really us jot worth hithering fighting this after the fact except to get yourself a little compensation.

The energy company knew - they just didn't remove the warrant that was on the property when they signed me up.

They may not have, or they may have made the request and it did not get processed in time, however that is a customer service issue, not a legal issue.

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:
The company that forced entry knew it was occupied and the warrant was for an empty property - they even said to the neighbour, ' this property is supposed to be empty'...

They may have expected it to be empty, for a potentially occupied property they may attend with more people, they may attend with police presence, but the warrant is not issued "for an empty property" as you seem to think it is, it is issued to access and address. 

I have just been sent a copy of the warrant. It names a tenant that left in October 2013 and was issued on August 9 2024. The energy company signed me up at this address on July 1 2024. They say they will call me shortly...

I’m still not getting why they were chasing a tenant who left 11 YEARS ago. 

And why the OP doesn’t comprehend that humans make mistakes. 

matt_drummer

cannugec5 said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

I feel like some youtube warrant magna carta responses is where this conversation would go if on Facebook.

In the"real" world it wasn't a warrant where they rifle through your smalls it was just a warrant to get to an internal meter. Surely if it had been tampered with you wouldn't want the risk of an electrical fire or gas leak?

Did it really affect you that much?

You should raise a complaint and get some sort of goodwill gesture through that complaint or escalating to the ombudsman service should you wish.

Still illegal. You can't go around breaking into people's homes with invalid warrants? 

I think you are making a leap in claiming that it is illegal and that the warrant was invalid, especially as you have not seen the warrant.

The warrant as issued is very unlikely to say "Only if the property is unoccupied", or similar. Most likely it grants permission to enter dwelling X between two dates, possibly with a time stipulation (eg. the access must be between 08:00-18:00). Now it may have been granted on the basis that the dwelling was unoccupied, but that does not impact the validity of the warrant. It will also usually state a purpose, eg. check supply, change meter, options relating to energy supply etc. 

I have been told on the phone that it was issued for an empty property by both the energy company and the company that forced entry. But I have yet to see the warrant. 

These kinds of warrants are for access to a particular address, eg. "221B Baker Street, London", not "The home of Mr Sherlock Holmes". The warrant would have been issued when the premises was known or expected to be empty, however it subsequently being occupied does not invalidate the warrant. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

@MattMattMattUK
They can't force entry into a property in my name with a warrant that is not in my name? That would be bonkers surely?

The warrant is not in your name. They can exercise their legal right to entry using the warrant regardless of who is in occupation. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

They wont know it's changed hands so the warrant will supposedly be for the address as well as the person but probably either is fine for entry. Address is correct....in they go.

This has happened with some of our tenants over the years and we have had to deal with irate tenants and when checked the energy supplier does have the right to enter the property to read and inspect their property (the meters)

It really us jot worth hithering fighting this after the fact except to get yourself a little compensation.

The energy company knew - they just didn't remove the warrant that was on the property when they signed me up.

They may not have, or they may have made the request and it did not get processed in time, however that is a customer service issue, not a legal issue.

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:
The company that forced entry knew it was occupied and the warrant was for an empty property - they even said to the neighbour, ' this property is supposed to be empty'...

They may have expected it to be empty, for a potentially occupied property they may attend with more people, they may attend with police presence, but the warrant is not issued "for an empty property" as you seem to think it is, it is issued to access and address. 

I have just been sent a copy of the warrant. It names a tenant that left in October 2013 and was issued on August 9 2024. The energy company signed me up at this address on July 1 2024. They say they will call me shortly...

I’m still not getting why they were chasing a tenant who left 11 YEARS ago. 

And why the OP doesn’t comprehend that humans make mistakes. 

They weren't chasing a tenant.

They thought the property was vacant.

The warrant was required to gain access to inspect the meters.

That is my understanding.

cannugec5

matt_drummer said:

cannugec5 said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

I feel like some youtube warrant magna carta responses is where this conversation would go if on Facebook.

In the"real" world it wasn't a warrant where they rifle through your smalls it was just a warrant to get to an internal meter. Surely if it had been tampered with you wouldn't want the risk of an electrical fire or gas leak?

Did it really affect you that much?

You should raise a complaint and get some sort of goodwill gesture through that complaint or escalating to the ombudsman service should you wish.

Still illegal. You can't go around breaking into people's homes with invalid warrants? 

I think you are making a leap in claiming that it is illegal and that the warrant was invalid, especially as you have not seen the warrant.

The warrant as issued is very unlikely to say "Only if the property is unoccupied", or similar. Most likely it grants permission to enter dwelling X between two dates, possibly with a time stipulation (eg. the access must be between 08:00-18:00). Now it may have been granted on the basis that the dwelling was unoccupied, but that does not impact the validity of the warrant. It will also usually state a purpose, eg. check supply, change meter, options relating to energy supply etc. 

I have been told on the phone that it was issued for an empty property by both the energy company and the company that forced entry. But I have yet to see the warrant. 

These kinds of warrants are for access to a particular address, eg. "221B Baker Street, London", not "The home of Mr Sherlock Holmes". The warrant would have been issued when the premises was known or expected to be empty, however it subsequently being occupied does not invalidate the warrant. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

@MattMattMattUK
They can't force entry into a property in my name with a warrant that is not in my name? That would be bonkers surely?

The warrant is not in your name. They can exercise their legal right to entry using the warrant regardless of who is in occupation. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

They wont know it's changed hands so the warrant will supposedly be for the address as well as the person but probably either is fine for entry. Address is correct....in they go.

This has happened with some of our tenants over the years and we have had to deal with irate tenants and when checked the energy supplier does have the right to enter the property to read and inspect their property (the meters)

It really us jot worth hithering fighting this after the fact except to get yourself a little compensation.

The energy company knew - they just didn't remove the warrant that was on the property when they signed me up.

They may not have, or they may have made the request and it did not get processed in time, however that is a customer service issue, not a legal issue.

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:
The company that forced entry knew it was occupied and the warrant was for an empty property - they even said to the neighbour, ' this property is supposed to be empty'...

They may have expected it to be empty, for a potentially occupied property they may attend with more people, they may attend with police presence, but the warrant is not issued "for an empty property" as you seem to think it is, it is issued to access and address. 

I have just been sent a copy of the warrant. It names a tenant that left in October 2013 and was issued on August 9 2024. The energy company signed me up at this address on July 1 2024. They say they will call me shortly...

I’m still not getting why they were chasing a tenant who left 11 YEARS ago. 

And why the OP doesn’t comprehend that humans make mistakes. 

They weren't chasing a tenant.

They thought the property was vacant.

The warrant was required to gain access to inspect the meters.

That is my understanding.

Sorry. My irony was lost. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24

BarelySentientAI said:

So, to summarise the thread:

Clerical error meant a valid application for a warrant wasn't revoked before the warrant was issued, which was then legally acted on with minimal damage, and the supplier has offered a goodwill payment for the error.

  

The call it compensation in writing. Yes, the third party who forces entry can say they acted on a legal warrant. The fault lies with the energy supplier. Regardless, the energy supplier should have put a stop to it once they signed me up and knew I was living here.They admit this.  The warrant has nothing to do with me and to force entry into my home you need to go through the process with me. Yes, minimal damage hence minimal compensation, probably why they aren't too concerned.

TisInNeedOfHelp24

matt_drummer said:

cannugec5 said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

I feel like some youtube warrant magna carta responses is where this conversation would go if on Facebook.

In the"real" world it wasn't a warrant where they rifle through your smalls it was just a warrant to get to an internal meter. Surely if it had been tampered with you wouldn't want the risk of an electrical fire or gas leak?

Did it really affect you that much?

You should raise a complaint and get some sort of goodwill gesture through that complaint or escalating to the ombudsman service should you wish.

Still illegal. You can't go around breaking into people's homes with invalid warrants? 

I think you are making a leap in claiming that it is illegal and that the warrant was invalid, especially as you have not seen the warrant.

The warrant as issued is very unlikely to say "Only if the property is unoccupied", or similar. Most likely it grants permission to enter dwelling X between two dates, possibly with a time stipulation (eg. the access must be between 08:00-18:00). Now it may have been granted on the basis that the dwelling was unoccupied, but that does not impact the validity of the warrant. It will also usually state a purpose, eg. check supply, change meter, options relating to energy supply etc. 

I have been told on the phone that it was issued for an empty property by both the energy company and the company that forced entry. But I have yet to see the warrant. 

These kinds of warrants are for access to a particular address, eg. "221B Baker Street, London", not "The home of Mr Sherlock Holmes". The warrant would have been issued when the premises was known or expected to be empty, however it subsequently being occupied does not invalidate the warrant. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

@MattMattMattUK
They can't force entry into a property in my name with a warrant that is not in my name? That would be bonkers surely?

The warrant is not in your name. They can exercise their legal right to entry using the warrant regardless of who is in occupation. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

MP1995 said:

They wont know it's changed hands so the warrant will supposedly be for the address as well as the person but probably either is fine for entry. Address is correct....in they go.

This has happened with some of our tenants over the years and we have had to deal with irate tenants and when checked the energy supplier does have the right to enter the property to read and inspect their property (the meters)

It really us jot worth hithering fighting this after the fact except to get yourself a little compensation.

The energy company knew - they just didn't remove the warrant that was on the property when they signed me up.

They may not have, or they may have made the request and it did not get processed in time, however that is a customer service issue, not a legal issue.

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:
The company that forced entry knew it was occupied and the warrant was for an empty property - they even said to the neighbour, ' this property is supposed to be empty'...

They may have expected it to be empty, for a potentially occupied property they may attend with more people, they may attend with police presence, but the warrant is not issued "for an empty property" as you seem to think it is, it is issued to access and address. 

I have just been sent a copy of the warrant. It names a tenant that left in October 2013 and was issued on August 9 2024. The energy company signed me up at this address on July 1 2024. They say they will call me shortly...

I’m still not getting why they were chasing a tenant who left 11 YEARS ago. 

And why the OP doesn’t comprehend that humans make mistakes. 

They weren't chasing a tenant.

They thought the property was vacant.

The warrant was required to gain access to inspect the meters.

That is my understanding.

It really doesn't work like that. Or shouldn't. Once they knew a new occupant was in the house they should have stopped all charges, warrants, etc on the house as they have nothing to do with the new occupant. They admit this. As I have said previously, had they asked I would have let them in. 

Reed_Richards

I think you need to raise a complaint with your supplier, if you have not already done so.  Ignore any legal issues and just concentrate on how upset you are to have your home broken into unnecessarily when "had they asked I would have let them in."  Hopefully they will offer you more compensation (which is typically described as a "goodwill gesture") than the meagre £100 mentioned.

If you do want to pursue a legal action, take advice to check that you have a case and that any potential outcome would be worth the expense. 

TisInNeedOfHelp24

Reed_Richards said:

I think you need to raise a complaint with your supplier, if you have not already done so.  Ignore any legal issues and just concentrate on how upset you are to have your home broken into unnecessarily when "had they asked I would have let them in."  Hopefully they will offer you more compensation (which is typically described as a "goodwill gesture") than the meagre £100 mentioned.

If you do want to pursue a legal action, take advice to check that you have a case and that any potential outcome would be worth the expense. 

I've raised numerous complaints. Took me almost three weeks to get a copy of the warrant, which they are supposed to leave in the house when they force entry. I can go to the Ombudsman but regarding compensation doubt I'd get anything more. Ditto legally. It's a mistake (albeit one they make repeatedly), little damage, etc. As the police say, it's trespass but no damage etc. The third party who force entry can just say they had a warrant so have no interest in verifying who lives there etc when they force entry. Hopefully eventually they will make them have better safeguards against this happening. Can't be that difficult as all accounts are on a computer so it should be automated. I'd have accepted a "mistake" had it happened just after I moved in - but the warrant was granted 5 weeks later.

TisInNeedOfHelp24

Reed_Richards said:

I think you need to raise a complaint with your supplier, if you have not already done so.  Ignore any legal issues and just concentrate on how upset you are to have your home broken into unnecessarily when "had they asked I would have let them in."  Hopefully they will offer you more compensation (which is typically described as a "goodwill gesture") than the meagre £100 mentioned.

If you do want to pursue a legal action, take advice to check that you have a case and that any potential outcome would be worth the expense. 

In my opinion there's no real repercussions so they don't particularly take it seriously. Which they should, warrants to force entry into people's homes should be taken seriously.

Reed_Richards

Maybe you can find a Consumer Rights programme on TV or radio that would like to feature your case?  Adverse publicity for your supplier would be a real repercussion.  Or do you not want to name names?   

Reed_Richards

TisInNeedOfHelp24 said:

I've raised numerous complaints............ 

But you have been focussing on the legality of what happened, where your case may be weak.  Where you have a strong case is for the emotional impact of a wholly unnecessary house invasion.