Economy 7 - problem with Landis+Gyr meter (non-smart)

victor2

We had an old american style fridge/freezer, which was consuming close to 3kWh per day. A significant part of that was the heating element as part of its "frost free" workings. It came on about once every 24 hours for 20-30 minutes, but it wasn't exactly 24 hours, I don't know what triggered it. If you have E7 and such a fridge, the heating time could easily drift from cheaper night rate to the day-time rate, and eventually back again.

It is known for these elements to go wrong and cause high electricity consumption.

When ours finally died, it was replaced with a similar style unit using about 1kWh per day, so quite a saving at today's rates.

NiceDogMan

BarelySentientAI said:

Based on your description you had an increase in night (so cheaper off-peak) usage and a corresponding decrease in day (expensive peak) usage.  More cheap electricity and less expensive electricity - benefit to customer.

If you've been complaining that it's measuring wrong - which is what your previous posts were suggesting - then of course the supplier would say that the creep test shows that it's fine.

Sounds more like it's measuring right but counting it in the wrong 'bucket' sometimes.

Thanks ... Yep ok ... I understand the "more cheap / less expensive electricity" scenario ... but I feel I will still need to run the calculations to see if I can verify any difference in cost as a result, compared with what would normally have occurred without this anomaly ... and if this means I have actually paid less than I should have, I have no doubt that this would eventually be discovered and I would have to cough up if that is the case.  

At present though, until I have a full set of figures, my instinct is still that I am likely to have been overcharged ... but we shall see ... the big issue to me is still that the billing and corresponding meter reads are not a proper reflection of the usage we normally undertake.

(Remember, my billing has indicated our usage at times, during the overnight 7 hour economy period (whilst asleep - almost everything electrical switched off and unused), as more than twice that of our daytime consumption over 17 hours.)

I also have reservations about the Creep Test I was required to perform, and I cannot get an informative response from my supplier about the full capabilities of such a test within the parameters of what I was asked to do.

Is there an industry prescribed format for undertaking a Creep Test? ... and what else would zero consumption during the test indicate?

I hope to have my own thread in place soon ... once my calculations are completed and I can give a bit more tangibility to these matters ...

Reed_Richards

NiceDogMan said:

I hope to have my own thread in place soon ... once my calculations are completed and I can give a bit more tangibility to these matters ...

Courtesy of the moderators you DO have your own thread, and this is it!

BarelySentientAI

Creep test - does it count zero when it should.  Any answer other then 'yes' is a fail 

Accuracy test - does it count everything else exactly right.  If not, then how much over or under is its counting at different points through the range.  Some error is allowable.

You can do a creep test yourself.  You can have a guess at an accuracy test, but you can't do a proper one without extreme effort.

NiceDogMan

Reed_Richards said:

NiceDogMan said:

I hope to have my own thread in place soon ... once my calculations are completed and I can give a bit more tangibility to these matters ...

Courtesy of the moderators you DO have your own thread, and this is it!

Ah!

Pardon my lack of experience with forum matters ... It's all new to me and I hadn't realised this had happened!

OK ... Many thanks for that ... when I am all done sifting and calculating, I will post my further findings and comments ... 

Reed_Richards

@NiceDogMan, the clue was the fact that the moderators gave your split-off thread a new title.  But the new title was similar to that of the parent thread so I guess you didn't notice.

NiceDogMan

victor2 said:

We had an old american style fridge/freezer, which was consuming close to 3kWh per day. A significant part of that was the heating element as part of its "frost free" workings. It came on about once every 24 hours for 20-30 minutes, but it wasn't exactly 24 hours, I don't know what triggered it. If you have E7 and such a fridge, the heating time could easily drift from cheaper night rate to the day-time rate, and eventually back again.

It is known for these elements to go wrong and cause high electricity consumption.

When ours finally died, it was replaced with a similar style unit using about 1kWh per day, so quite a saving at today's rates.

Hi ... yes, we also have an American Style Fridge Freezer, and it has performed just as anticipated since purchase about 4 yrs ago - It is rated A+ and it's annual energy consumption is given as 438kWh ... or 1.2kWh per day ... which is in line with your own.

I haven't actually tested its energy efficiency, but I also have no reason to believe it is malfunctioning.

I'll keep this in mind though.

Many thanks!

Ildhund

I've been trying (not very successfully) to make sense of this thread. What isn't clear to me is when and how these peak/offpeak readings are being taken and submitted. All we know about the metering system is that it was made by L+G. Where are the time switches that turn the heating on and off - in the meter? At the appliance(s)? Is all power consumed during offpeak hours charged at offpeak rates, or only that drawn by heating equipment? We can only guess. It would be really helpful to have a photo or two of the meter box's contents, with a close-up of the meter itself clear enough for us to read all the markings on it and its display. 

NiceDogMan

I apologise for the lengthy delay in coming back to this thread ... but by way of simplest update, the controversy I had raised with my supplier about crazy overnight (Economy 7) meter readings and inexplicable usage patterns is now "resolved" ... so to speak.

My supplier refuses to believe that the Day/Night (Economy 7) meter readings obtained/submitted are incorrect, or that there is a fault with the meter ... but there is no evidence available that indicates how the excessively high readings/consumption overnight has occurred.  

Even though on each occasion this has happened there has been a corresponding low reading for daytime usage, my supplier does not wish to see there is a likelihood that there have been occasions where somehow daytime and night time metering has become incorrectly transposed ... as an explanation for these odd readings(??).

Interestingly, after extensive calculations to estimate/predict overall consumption at our premises (using figures for EVERY piece of electrical equipment/installation we have), I have found my own estimate for annual consumption is surprisingly close to the actual overall consumption recorded - taking into account uncertainty about consumption occurring whilst serious home renovations/improvements have been carried out at times, and based on a "normal" pattern of consumption where we would expect to use more electricity during the day and less electricity during night time.

And whilst this in a way confirms that my overall energy consumption through meter readings appears to be reasonably accurate, it does not explain why the strange overnight increases and daytime decreases of metered consumption have occurred.

So, at a kind of stalemate, the only option as far as my supplier was concerned was to take the matter to the Energy Ombudsman for their "independent" review ... or settle with a small credit to my account on the basis of inconvenience caused, and agreeing to disagree.

Settling was frankly the best option as far as I was concerned, as I have spent far more time and effort on this matter than I could have anticipated, and did not want it being drawn out for a further period without any real expectation of achieving a better solution.

Since the anomalies of unusual meter readings/consumption were first reported to my supplier, and have never occurred again after the last occasion of "self-correcting" ... I remain at a loss as to how these events ever happened, other than due to an intermittent meter fault ... which of course my supplier continues to believe is not the case.

Thank you all who have contributed earlier to this thread ... if any other developments surface in a similar fashion it may be something that I can return to and explore once more.

Cheers!

Reed_Richards

Given that you actually benefit financially from inexplicably larger overnight reading coupled with smaller daytime readings, I think you did the right thing by taking the small financial settlement and calling it quits.  And presumably your supplier gave you the option of having your current meter replaced with a new smart meter?