Replacing very old overnight storage heaters

FlorayG

I looked into this in detail when I was considering changing my gas central heating ( which need replacing entirely, boiler, pipes, radiators) for electric as I have solar panels
The upshot, after having various reps round and a couple of trusted electricians, was that electric heaters are all the same and the only difference is in the density of the core - a hot air heater has no core so goes cold immediately when you switch it off; an oil filled stays warm fora while; a brick filled stays warm longest; but then, a brick filled takes longest to heat up in the first place, so it all ends up equal unless you can heat it on a cheap rate.
Don't touch Fischer - one of my friends bought a bungalow entirely heated with those, the controls are fiddly and they are not at all efficient
What did I decide on? I installed a woodburner and got a couple of oil filled radiators £90 each
You also need to consider, when buying, how long it will take to recoup on your investment. If an oil filled takes 2p and hour more to run but costs 1/10 the price, it might be a better investment

Moley27272

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi Moley.
Could you post a pic of your storage heaters, please? Any model numbers anywhere - on the side, underneath, or behind a hinge-down cover? See if you can find the info plates somewhere on them.
Are they all the same, or have some been replaced along the way?
Most likely they'll be Dimplex make, and unfortunately some of the older ones did use asbestos as part of the insulation inside. In this case, they should be disposed of - no sparky should try replacing your elements for you.
From what I've Googled, the non-asbestos models were from around 1974, so yours - at 50-years old - would seem to be on the cusp of that change. We need to know the exact model.
If they do contain asbestos, they will need removing by a licensed contractor. I guess your first call would be to your LA?
If they don't contain asbestos, then the most sensible move forward would be to have them tested for the fault, which - as said by others - is most likely to be a failed element or two. In this case, a repair is almost certainly the smartest move, as the savings over replacing the whole unit will be considerable; £900+ for each new SH will cover a lot of your future energy use.
Yes, new SHs will almost certainly provide savings on your leccy bill, but will also almost certainly take many years to recoup the £900 outlay. 
So, we first need to confirm the exact models you have. Based on this, we can suggest the best way forward for you, including choice of model.

https://www.storageheaters.com/asbestos-list.htm

This is very helpful, thank you. It says Sunhouse SSH24M -79363S Series B 00540 P . Sorry I can't do the picture thingy. From your link I can find other SSH numbers but not SSH24M. I can't do this today but will deal with this tomorrow. 
Thank you again, very helpful of you. 

Moley27272

@ThisIsWeird . If my rad's do have asbestos in them do I call local council to remove. Sorry if this is a dim question but can the asbestos be removed and replaced with something else that is not so dangerous ?

danrv

Another list on this page that includes the model in question:
https://www.armco.org.uk/asbestos-survey-news/storage-heaters-that-contain-asbestos/

Before dismantling my warm air heater, I contacted the manufacturer (Dimplex/Unidare) with the serial No. to be certain about asbestos.

Moley27272

danrv said:

Another list on this page that includes the model in question:
https://www.armco.org.uk/asbestos-survey-news/storage-heaters-that-contain-asbestos/

Before dismantling my warm air heater, I contacted the manufacturer (Dimplex/Unidare) with the serial No. to be certain about asbestos.

danrv said:

Another list on this page that includes the model in question:
https://www.armco.org.uk/asbestos-survey-news/storage-heaters-that-contain-asbestos/

Before dismantling my warm air heater, I contacted the manufacturer (Dimplex/Unidare) with the serial No. to be certain about asbestos.

thank you I will do this 

ThisIsWeird

Moley27272 said:

@ThisIsWeird . If my rad's do have asbestos in them do I call local council to remove. Sorry if this is a dim question but can the asbestos be removed and replaced with something else that is not so dangerous ?

Almost certainly, no, you cannot replace the asbestos content with a more suitable substance. Tbh, these heaters are waaaay past their expected lifespan, and everything else will be failing too.

If they do contain asbestos - I haven't checked that list, but Dan has done the homework for us - then they simply need disposing of. No-one should be trying to make them work again - sorry.

I'd call the LA in the first instance, just in case they can provide this service themselves, or can recommend someone else who can. The problem is, they are so heavy that they usually need dismantling first, and that's where the specialist operators are particularly needed. Smaller ones can possibly be lifted away intact - possibly the larger ones too, with suitable trolleys?

ThisIsWeird

If/when it comes to replacing them, your choice would appear to be to either go 'instant' heat like oil-filled radiators with timers, or to go 'storage' again. I'd suggest that it would come down to things like, how many rooms do you need to keep warm, and over what times, and how easy is your house to heat.

As said by others, no heater is more 'efficient' at providing heat for a given amount of electricity than any other, but some will be more 'effective' at providing heat in the right place and at the right time. 

'Storage' heaters have the huge advantage of using cheap-rate electricity, around 50% less? But, they have a significant disadvantage of being relatively uncontrollable, and will give out some heat whether you want it to or not - so it will always need another overnight top-up even' tho' it's barely being used during the day. I am sure that modern SHs are very well insulated, so this will be less of an issue. A drawback to Eco7 is that daytime electricity costs are higher than standard, I believe? So, you need to weigh up overnight 'charging' vs daytime electricity use.

Modern SHs are also more precise to control. A drawback could be that this control is relatively complex, so you need to be certain that you can master their operation, to get the best use out of them. Some use 'Smart' phone control - is that of interest, or concern?

And then there's the initial purchase cost - they will cost around £900 a pop, and you add installation on top of this. So, at least £3k for 3 heaters.

Alternatively, you can buy digital-control oil-filled rads at £70 each, and just have them running when you need to - background heating overnight, coming up higher just before you get up. You'll have £3k in the bank to cover the increased running costs - that should last a decade...

Or, what I would do in your position, I think - I've just checked Facebook Marketplace, and within 80 miles of where I am there's a nearly-new 'Designa' SH (never heard of them) for £125 (a small size) which is nearly new, and has full digital control for different temps at different times - like a programmable thermostat. Also, fitted-for-two-week Credas at half-price (owner changing their CH system) - you could haggle that down, I'm sure. A Dimplex Quantum in excellent cond for under half price - ditto. Obviously, you'd need someone to do all the heavy work on these.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/economy-7/

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said: As said by others, no heater is more 'efficient' at providing heat for a given amount of electricity than any other, but some will be more 'effective' at providing heat in the right place and at the right time.

Just to clarify the above statement - No conventional electric heater is any more efficient than another except electric boilers (nasty, horrible things) or heat pumps - A well configured heat pump can deliver 3kW or more of heat for every kW of electricity consumed. If I had the option of spending £2K+ each on a bunch of Fischer heaters or a similar amount for an ASHP, I'd go for the latter every time.

Moley27272

thank you for the above information , its very helpful in making my decision. 
So I am going for a 2nd hand Dimplex quantum heater. I am on economy 7 which I use for my EV car. So it makes sense to heat the rads up overnight a release the heat during the day saving on my electricity cost.
I've seen several on ebay, half the price of a new dimplex quantum. Some do not come with bricks. Where can I buy the bricks ? I have a good electrician near me who I will ask to install. I need 2 x 2000w and I x 1500w rad.
Thank you

Moley27272

FreeBear said:

ThisIsWeird said: As said by others, no heater is more 'efficient' at providing heat for a given amount of electricity than any other, but some will be more 'effective' at providing heat in the right place and at the right time.

Just to clarify the above statement - No conventional electric heater is any more efficient than another except electric boilers (nasty, horrible things) or heat pumps - A well configured heat pump can deliver 3kW or more of heat for every kW of electricity consumed. If I had the option of spending £2K+ each on a bunch of Fischer heaters or a similar amount for an ASHP, I'd go for the latter every time.

what does ASHP mean ?