Tui newcastle to antalya flight 4aug cancellation

sweety

04/08/24 newcastle to antalya flight cancelled due to crew trapped in Lift for 2 hours plus.
Rearranged flight from manchester next day, arriving 18 hrs late.

Has anyone completed Tui online flight delay form, only for it to be rejected almost immediately?

bagand96

Airlines do not have to pay compensation if the flight delay/cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances beyond the Airline's control. 

It's whether the crew being trapped in a lift (that I guess isn't owned or operated by TUI) would be deemed extraordinary circumstances or not? Or whether there is an argument they should have had a standby crew ready and waiting?

In any event TUI should have provided overnight accommodation and meals as well as transport to Manchester. If they didn't you can claim your expenses for those. 

Hoenir

bagand96 said:

Or whether there is an argument they should have had a standby crew ready and waiting?

In case the assigned crew becomes stuck in a lift onsite transiting to the aircraft. That's precisely why exceptional circumstances exist. Every conceivable eventuality cannot be foreseen. 

sweety

Tui did provide hotel and food and transport to manchester, so credit that. They also emailed to encourage us to claim compensation via their online flight delay form, only for them to reject each one almost immediately, without any further reasons……..this is the confusing part, as if they are reasoning the delay was ‘extraordinary’ why not email every passenger affected and say that, rather than encourage us to make a claim? And airlines do have ‘standby crews’ usually available, but obviously cannot cover every flight or situation. It’s the mixed messages i am puzzled by. And i paid a lot of money out only to lose a whole day of a week’s holiday, which deserves compensating for.

eskbanker

sweety said:

Tui did provide hotel and food and transport to manchester, so credit that. They also emailed to encourage us to claim compensation via their online flight delay form, only for them to reject each one almost immediately, without any further reasons……..this is the confusing part, as if they are reasoning the delay was ‘extraordinary’ why not email every passenger affected and say that, rather than encourage us to make a claim?

I could be wrong but suspect that it's only a minority of passengers who even consider claiming, so they're probably happy to remain reactive.

sweety said:

And i paid a lot of money out only to lose a whole day of a week’s holiday, which deserves compensating for.

The airline isn't liable for that, but your package provider should reduce the holiday price if you had one less night as a result - even if they're both branded as Tui, the airline and the tour operator are two different companies and the Package Travel Regulations impose obligations on the latter (but not the former).

bagand96

Hoenir said:

bagand96 said:

Or whether there is an argument they should have had a standby crew ready and waiting?

In case the assigned crew becomes stuck in a lift onsite transiting to the aircraft. That's precisely why exceptional circumstances exist. Every conceivable eventuality cannot be foreseen. 

I'm not saying I agree, however the argument of standby crews has been succesfully made in the past.

All situations are different and obviously an airline's don't t have an endless supply of standby crews.

eskbanker

bagand96 said:
All situations are different and obviously an airline's don't t have an endless supply of standby crews.

Yes, I think much depends on circumstances and what would be deemed to be reasonable - the key phrase from case law seems to be that airlines aren't required to make "intolerable sacrifices", i.e. they can't be expected to have standby crews (and/or aircraft) ready to cover all eventualities, so if the airline can demonstrate that they take a reasonable position then that's likely to be accepted by a court, so, for example, BA would be expected to have spares at Heathrow, but Tui wouldn't be expected to have spares at somewhere like Antalya.  I don't know where Newcastle fits along that spectrum though....

sweety

I have since received an email from Tui stating there will be a payment for lost day on a pro rata basis. Presumably this will be from the tour operator TUi? Which then begs the question of being able to receive the regulatory amount for flight delay from TUI airlines as well as this? Not wishing to be greedy, but just want to clarify what the legal position would be. There is no guarantee TUI airlines will pay the £1400 owed anyway. Thanks for all your thoughts to date, i really appreciate it.

bagand96

sweety said:

I have since received an email from Tui stating there will be a payment for lost day on a pro rata basis. Presumably this will be from the tour operator TUi? Which then begs the question of being able to receive the regulatory amount for flight delay from TUI airlines as well as this? Not wishing to be greedy, but just want to clarify what the legal position would be. There is no guarantee TUI airlines will pay the £1400 owed anyway. Thanks for all your thoughts to date, i really appreciate it.

TUI the tour operator owe you the pro-rata refund on the package holiday under the Package and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018.

TUI Airways may owe compensation under EC261 (now UK261) regulations for the flight delay. 

Separate laws and separate companies so there's nothing to stop you claiming both. EDIT: see @eskbanker post below where there may be an offset between the two regulations 

However as already discussed, under EC261 the airline don't have to pay compensation in extraordinary circumstances which may well apply here. 

eskbanker

bagand96 said:

sweety said:

I have since received an email from Tui stating there will be a payment for lost day on a pro rata basis. Presumably this will be from the tour operator TUi? Which then begs the question of being able to receive the regulatory amount for flight delay from TUI airlines as well as this? Not wishing to be greedy, but just want to clarify what the legal position would be. There is no guarantee TUI airlines will pay the £1400 owed anyway. Thanks for all your thoughts to date, i really appreciate it.

TUI the tour operator owe you the pro-rata refund on the package holiday under the Package and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018.

TUI Airways may owe compensation under EC261 (now UK261) regulations for the flight delay. 

Separate laws and separate companies so there's nothing to stop you claiming both.

Regulation 16(9) of the PTRs does envisage some sort of setoff in the event that compensation or price reduction arises from both:

(7) Any right to compensation or price reduction under these Regulations does not affect the rights of travellers under—

(a) the Union passenger rights legislation; and

(b) the international conventions.

(8) Travellers may present claims under—

(a) these Regulations;

(b) the Union passenger rights legislation; and

(c) the international conventions.

(9) Where a traveller is granted compensation or a price reduction under—

(a these Regulations, and

(b) the Union passenger rights legislation or the international conventions,

the organiser must deduct the compensation or price reductions referred to in sub-paragraph (b) from the compensation or price reduction referred to in sub-paragraph (a) to avoid overcompensation.

where "the Union passenger rights legislation" is strictly EC261 but is presumably UK261 now too.  Not sure exactly how and when this provision is applied though....

sweety

Just an update, and to give thanks to all those people who bothered to give their time and advice, Tui have just paid £1400 ie £350 x 4 into account. I hope everyone else on the flight sees this and puts in a claim as well. Thanks again to all those who replied. Much appreciated.