UKPC PCN Appeal

toni2014

Coupon-mad said:

Their photos will be close up and probably blurry so in fact (if I'm right) you may be OK just using their pics not yours.

Show us their pics.

POPLA doesn't matter anyway, win or lose you don't pay.

@Coupon-mad, this is the pic they provided of the signage together with a picture of the car in the motorcycle bay

fisherjim

That notice does not conform to the PoFA or the BPA COP in my opinion.

The PoFA states:

(2)The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles (when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).

(3)For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by—

(a)the display of one or more notices in accordance with any applicable requirements prescribed in regulations under paragraph 12 for, or for purposes including, the purposes of sub-paragraph (2); or

(b)where no such requirements apply, the display of one or more notices which—

(i)specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and

(ii)are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land.

The sum is hidden in a wall of text on that notice.

The BPA COP specifically makes reference to the above:

19.4 If you intend to use the keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4
of POFA 2012, your signs must give ’adequate notice’. This
includes:
• specifying the sum payable for unauthorised parking
• adequately bringing the charges to the attention of
drivers, and
• following any applicable government signage
regulations.
See paragraphs 2(2), 2(3) and 12 of the Schedule

20.4 If you want to enforce a parking charge notice under the
keeper liability provisions of POFA 2012 you will need to
show how you brought the requirement to pay parking
charges to the attention of drivers. See paragraphs 2 (2)
and (3) of Schedule 4.

LDast

Spot the difference:

Coupon-mad

Perfect!  

toni2014

fisherjim said:

That notice does not conform to the PoFA or the BPA COP in my opinion.

The PoFA states:

(2)The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles (when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).

(3)For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by—

(a)the display of one or more notices in accordance with any applicable requirements prescribed in regulations under paragraph 12 for, or for purposes including, the purposes of sub-paragraph (2); or

(b)where no such requirements apply, the display of one or more notices which—

(i)specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and

(ii)are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land.

The sum is hidden in a wall of text on that notice.

The BPA COP specifically makes reference to the above:

19.4 If you intend to use the keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4
of POFA 2012, your signs must give ’adequate notice’. This
includes:
• specifying the sum payable for unauthorised parking
• adequately bringing the charges to the attention of
drivers, and
• following any applicable government signage
regulations.
See paragraphs 2(2), 2(3) and 12 of the Schedule

20.4 If you want to enforce a parking charge notice under the
keeper liability provisions of POFA 2012 you will need to
show how you brought the requirement to pay parking
charges to the attention of drivers. See paragraphs 2 (2)
and (3) of Schedule 4.

Do I look on the forum for the most comprehensive appeal and submit that?

I'm guessing the above will be included in such an appeal. I recall seeing a 26 page appeal! Shall I submit that one?

toni2014

LDast said:

Spot the difference:

Great, shall I add both of those screenshots to my appeal?

LDast

toni2014 said:

Great, shall I add both of those screenshots to my appeal?

Why on earth wouldn't you?

Don't simply assume because you've seen a 26 page appeal by someone else that it is valid for your case? It is the quality of your appeal that counts, not the size.

toni2014

LDast said:

toni2014 said:

Great, shall I add both of those screenshots to my appeal?

Why on earth wouldn't you?

Don't simply assume because you've seen a 26 page appeal by someone else that it is valid for your case? It is the quality of your appeal that counts, not the size.

Do you have supplementary information that I can raise re the images you've provided. Or do I just need to make the point that signs are not consistent?

I'll scout the forum to collate what I can for the appeal and put something together, will share here before I submit 

LDast

Do the signs conform to the requirements set out in the BPA Code of Practice? Is the charge “adequately” brought to the attention of the motorist? Do a Google search for Lord Dennings “Red hand rule”.

Nellymoser

Looking at the photos from LDast which sign do you think adequately brings the charge to the attention of the motorists. UKPC £100 in small font buried in a wall text or PE £85 in larger font displayed with no surrounding text.