Bristol Airport - PCN for stopping at a traffic light.

Fruitcake

Use Im_tired_of_this's, court case (the name of the court, the case number, and the date) in your complaints.

DVLA contact details here,

ccrt@dvla.gov.uk 

and

KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk

Stress the judge's comments "that using the parking legislation to ask for my keeper's details in order to establish the reason for me stopping at a pedestrian crossing - i.e. a fishing exercise - was not legitimate."

Sadly, it's not a persuasive case, and the DVLA are unlikely to act upon the information, but every little piece of evidence helps.

Note that you will need to complain to VCS about this first before you can complain to the DVLA. You should however also put the judge's comments in all your complaints to the OTTP, BA Ltd, and your MP.

Your complaint about data sharing should go to the DPO of VCS. Highlight the fact that any alleged contract is between the motorist and the company name displayed on the signs. Excel are a completely separate company as detailed in Companies House records. Quote the company numbers against each name.

This data breach should also be included in all your other complaints.

Other than complaints, I don't think you need to contact VCS again until you get a Letter of/before Claim.

Imnotpaying

That is extremely useful, @Fruitcake!  Thank you so much - it makes the whole process so much easier. I really appreciate all the valuable time you're putting into this.

Imnotpaying

Thanks a lot, @Coupon-mad!  That's really helpful.  I really appreciate your time and effort helping me with this.

Imnotpaying

Hello again, dear helpers and experts!  I have started my journey with a complaint to VCS.  Just to notify them that I'm not paying, that I will not deal with debt collectors, and providing a skeleton summary of my argument.  I'll save the extensive details for my defence of claim.  

I've taken on board all the helpful comments from @Coupon-mad and @Fruitcake, and incorporated what I've gleaned from looking at the threads mentioned, particularly @HatePCNlotsand @RRTechie (thanks, guys), but I couldn't find any example complaint letters, so here's my draft.  I would be very grateful for comments before I finalise it.  Should it go to the Chief Exec of VCS?  I saw his email address somewhere but can't find it now.  Can anyone help, please?

"Dear Sirs,

Parking Charge Notice Number xxxx

I write to complain about the actions of your company in relation to the above.  

I dispute the charge. I deny any liability or contractual agreement: signs that say “no stopping, £100 charge if you do” are forbidding in nature. Stopping at a traffic signal is required by the airport Byelaws currently in force.  A driver cannot agree to something that is prohibited.

I have not incurred any debt.  Do not instruct any debt recovery agents to contact me.  Any proceedings to recover an alleged debt will be vigorously defended.

Vehicle Control Services (VCS) and Excel Parking Services Ltd. (EPS) have not acted in accordance with the requirements of the existing data protection legislation and I shall be making a complaint to DVLA and KADOE in due course.

VCS does not have a contract with the landowner to issue a PCN notice for stopping at Bristol Airport. I shall make a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner. I shall also contact my MP, and the operating company, Bristol Airport Ltd., to complain about your actions.  

Stopping at a traffic signal is required by the airport Byelaws currently in force and is not parking. The charge notice states, "The period of parking to which this Notice relates is the period immediately preceding the Time of Event stated in this Notice." A parking charge notice has been issued for a non-parking event.

Yours faithfully,"

LDast

Not sure what stage in the process you are at but writing to VCS with the above is an exercise in futility. The allegation is not that the driver simply stopped but that they allowed a person or persons to be picked up or dropped off in a prohibited location.

As to whether a driver can be responsible for the actions of a passenger whilst they are stationary at traffic lights is a different matter.

If you are in the limbo stage, waiting for a Letter of Claim (LoC) then there is no point writing to VCS. Any complaints should be to the airport owner,m their managing agents and your MP. Once you receive an LoC, then respond as per the advice in the second post of the Newbies/FAQ thread.

Gr1pr

Pardon me jumping in, but VCS normally enforce on airport land like Bristol airport and others, not Excel 

So I would have thought that any complaints about the PCN to the airport or the foreign owner would be about VCS 

Excel don't manage airports, so any complaint about their involvement would be with all parties, Excel/ VCS litigation team and CEO , as in SRS Mr clampit, plus to your local MP, as well as the airport and the foreign owner. ? ( possibly to the ICO in the future. )

Your proposed complaint says VCS doesn't have a contract with the landowner, but they do have one with the airport and the airport should have authority flowing from the foreign landowner 

Excel should not be replying or be involved ,  they are sister companies but each to their own , no cross pollination, only VCS should be processing your data, not Excel 

Fruitcake

Gr1pr said:

Pardon me jumping in, but VCS normally enforce on airport land like Bristol airport and others, not Excel 

So I would have thought that any complaints about the PCN to the airport or the foreign owner would be about VCS 

Excel don't manage airports, so any complaint about their involvement would be with all parties, Excel/ VCS litigation team and CEO , as in SRS Mr clampit, plus to your local MP, as well as the airport and the foreign owner. ? ( possibly to the ICO in the future. )

Your proposed complaint says VCS doesn't have a contract with the landowner, but they do have one with the airport and the airport should have authority flowing from the foreign landowner 

Excel should not be replying or be involved ,  they are sister companies but each to their own , no cross pollination, only VCS should be processing your data, not Excel 

I believe, like many others including myself who have fought a PCN from VCS, and appealed, they have then received a reply from Excel, a completely separate accounting company with a different company number registered at Companies House. In my opinion, that is a data breach about which complaints should be made.

As for the major shareholder landowner, I personally believe they are not even aware of the actions of VCS, their sub-contractor's sub-contractor, or don't care about it. I have yet to find anyone, including myself, who has ever had an acknowledgment from the foreign investment company that holds the majority of shares in the airport ownership.
I have advised many posters to challenge the existence of a contract with or flowing from the foreign landowner to VCS that allows this parking company to issue court claims, which is usually where a PCN for not stopping at this airport normally ends up. I say this because I firmly believe if such a contract existed, it would at least be mentioned, or referred to by BA Ltd and VCS, and would be produced in court when its existence is challenged. 

In all my dealings with BA Ltd, VCS, Excel, my MP, and all the threads and posters I have tried to help on and off this forum about BRS, not once has a reference ever been made about such a contract existing, and not once has such a contract ever been produced. If it did exist, I think it reasonable for the Man on the Clapham omnibus to believe on the balance of probabilities that it would at least be referred to by the parties involved, and more importantly, it would be produced in evidence.

Gr1pr

I totally agree, so the OP needs to be aware of who is involved, who should not be involved, plus specify the contract that is being queried.  So understanding first, as you have pointed out above, then cut and thrust with the correct weapon against the correct entity for the right reasons 

IMHO the complaint draft needs more work, based on what you have said above, especially that next to last paragraph 

Imnotpaying

Thanks again, @LDast, @Gr1pr and @Fruitcake for your helpful contributions.  I've been indisposed, hence the late reply.  Letter sent to MP, who has replied saying that, as a new MP, he doesn't yet have an office or staff so won't be able to reply until September!!  Formal complaint sent to BRS via their Complaints Procedure, in the first instance.  Having difficulty finding an appropriate contact in OTTP.
So I guess I'll just do nothing with VCS and Excel until the LoC arrives. Let's hope I'm not back in hospital when it does.

Fruitcake

I would respond to VCS and EXCEL making them aware of all the points you intend to rely on should this go to court.

Not the landowner
No contract with or flowing from the landowner to issue court claims
Not relevant land, byelaws apply, keeper not liable
Stopping is not parking
Signs prohibitive
Stopping at a crossing/traffic lights is a mandatory byelaw requirement
Data breach (passing personal data to Excel whose name does not appear on the signs and therefore not party to any alleged contract)
Etcetera,
Etcetera

If/when it comes to court, you can show a judge how you are not liable and tried repeatedly to narrow the issue to prevent such a vexatious claim.

I found email addresses for OTTP's London and Toronto offices, but can't remember how.