Bristol Airport - PCN for stopping at a traffic light.

Imnotpaying

Gr1pr said:

I have never dealt with them at all, so yes you would expect firms to put their reply email address on letters 

Yes, but you never know with this lot.....

Imnotpaying

I have just read para 4 of the PAP, which states "The debtor should use the Reply Form in Annex 1 [ of the PAP] for their response" [to the Letter of Claim].  The Newbies thread reads "A 'real' LBC gives a 30 day deadline and reply forms. DO NOT use the 'reply forms'".  The Newbie advice seems to be contrary to the PAP guidelines.  What do I do?

KeithP

Imnotpaying said:

I have just read para 4 of the PAP, which states "The debtor should use the Reply Form in Annex 1 [ of the PAP] for their response" [to the Letter of Claim].  The Newbies thread reads "A 'real' LBC gives a 30 day deadline and reply forms. DO NOT use the 'reply forms'".  The Newbie advice seems to be contrary to the PAP guidelines.  What do I do?

But the PAP doesn't say 'must' does it?  

Gr1pr

Plus the victim is not a debtor until a court says so. ( Alleged debtor maybe. )

Someone taken to court for rent arrears ( who signed the rental contract. ) is more likely a debtor, the Justice system is more setup for those cases etc, but not private parking cases. Frankly it needs to be a different track and leave the normal track for its intended purpose ( not hijacked by greedy ex clamper private parking companies who seem to think its only for them.  )

Fruitcake

The template defence, nor a decent bespoke defence against a PPC won't fit in the reply form, and will muck up the formatting to boot.
Stick with the advice on this forum.

Coupon-mad

We know what we're doing. Trust us!

Imnotpaying

I do trust you, but 50 plus years as a professional scientist has taught me to question for clarity.  Many thanks to all forum members for the time you all put in to this!! 

Coupon-mad

I get it. One of my sprogs is a professional scientist too. He questions everything!

Imnotpaying

I have now received a response to my complaint to BAL, which seems to me, as a simple soul, to make it very clear that the Land in question does, in fact, belong to BAL. So I looked it up on the Land Registry, which also seems to confirm

this.  I bought the whole land registry entry, but can't attach the file so this is the content of the Summary:

Register summary

Title number  ST180919

Registered owner BRISTOL AIRPORT LIMITED,  Lulsgate, Bristol, BS48 3DY

Last sold for  No price recorded

A: Property Register

This register describes the land and estates comprised in this title. 

Entry No.1 NORTH SOMERSET

The Freehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the above title filed at the Registry and  being Bristol International Airport, Bristol (BS48 3DY). I can find no reference in any of the documents to Ontario Teachers Pension Plan.   Have I in my naivety got something wrong here?

Imnotpaying

Below is the complete text of the reply from BAL to my complaint.  As you can see, it's a very poor cut and paste, presumably from a response requested from (or provided for them by ) VCS?  The important question, I guess, is whether the right to issue a charge notice lies with the registered owner or the "ultimate"owner, whatever that might mean. And why doesn't the "ultimate" owner's name appear in any of the Land Registry entry. I think this point needs to be clarified for the benefit of all Forum members with extant charge notices by someone who understands these things. 

They say I'm in possession of an outdated version of the contract (that was my point exactly - its expired!), but they haven't included or referenced a copy of the current contract.  I will ask them to provide a dated copy in due course.

The final paragraph has the VCS stamp on it, too.  My response to this will be covered in my response to their Letter of Claim, which is now almost ready, but I need to know how to deal with the ownership issue before I can finalise it.

"Good Morning xxx, 

Thank you for your patience whilst your case is reviewed by our Commercial Manager. 

Please review the questions you asked and the corresponding answers provided below.

BAL is allowing VCS to operate at the airport without a contract with the landowner, Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan (para 4 of my complaint);

The registered owner of the land is Bristol Airport Limited. However, ultimate ownership lies with the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan. As a result, VCS have a contractual agreement is with Bristol Airport Limited as the landowner.

BAL is allowing VCS to operate outside of its terms of an agreement with BAL. (Detail is provided in para 5 of my complaint);

Upon reviewing the details, we believe you may be in possession of an outdated version of the contract. The current contract, dated 2023, clearly documents the contravention under Schedule One. It is also important to note that the new contract predates the contravention in question, meaning the terms and conditions, including the clause, were in effect at the time of the incident.

BAL has allowed my data collected at the airport to be handled by VCS in a way that does not comply with the Service Agreement, and which may be contrary to the provisions of Data Protection legislation (para 11 of my complaint).

VCS have confirmed that Vehicle Control Services Ltd has never, at any point, unlawfully shared or transmitted motorists' personal details to any external or separate company. It's important to note that Vehicle Control Services Ltd operates as a wholly owned subsidiary of Excel Parking Services Ltd and are commitment to maintaining compliance with all relevant laws, including those regarding data privacy, remains a top priority.

It is also importance to note that, you have stated you were stopped at a red light, however, CCTV footage confirms that the temporary traffic lights were green at the point that the passenger entered your vehicle.

 

Kind Regards,"