HMRC incorrectly state that we've claimed UC via a partially completed online form?

Algorithm_Blues

In February (2024) my partner and I received a migration letter to move from 'child tax credits' onto 'universal credit'. We decided to get ahead (still having a couple of months before activation) and started to loosely fill in some details before collating all the documents to complete the application later on.

At a certain point in this process we were asked to accept our 'commitments'. This is where we discovered that it wasn't possible to go back and check over the information we'd already submitted (just to make sure it was all correct). As we knew we'd left some 'fields' blank - because we didn't have the full information at hand. At this point - without committing - we decided to just wait for the deadline before completing the form.

Subsequently, we were exposed to multiple emails and text messages about 'job centre meetings and phone interviews, etc'. Consequently, we both felt we didn't need this rather aggressive element in our lives and decided to get by on the finances we already had, and just continue up to the end of our 'child tax credits' and leave it at that.

As I previously mentioned this happened back in February and our 'child tax credits' continued as normal (there was no more correspondence from UC in any form). Then to our total surprise we received a schedule for 'child tax credits' for 2004/5 - the first couple of payments went through as normal.

However, in early July we received a letter stating that we'd incurred an 'over-payment' of £600... and a couple of days later another one arrived for £250 - in relation to the final couple of months of the 2003/4 year. The HMRC lady on their 'helpline' merely stated - "... that because we'd claimed UC we were therefore not entitled to 'child tax credits' too", and gave us an address to write to - if we wanted to query this matter further.

We found this statement somewhat absurd... I mean what level of information given constitutes completion? There was no follow up after the initial flurry from UC - absolutely zero information sent to us in five months with regard to the supposed claim, no indication that there was a problem. We're now £850 in debt - which in our opinion is through no fault of our own.

Is there anything we can do mitigate this situation?

HillStreetBlues

It sounds like you s submitted a claim for UC even though you didn't fill in every question. As soon as you claimed it the CTC would have ended.
There must have been a delay in on closing the TC so that's why you have an overpayment.
As your ignored the messages from UC your claim would have closed. If you do claim UC again I expect you will have lost any transitional protection.
The only way to avoid the overpayment to to show that you never actually submitted the claim, but can't see how you could so this, as even a mistaken claim, is still a claim.

Algorithm_Blues

Ok, thanks. Seems rather unfair since at no point did I agree to anything. I was just sketching out a future claim... I accept your premise though.

peteuk

What should happen is you either

Do nothing - and your TC ends on the date annotated on your migration letter (usually 3 months later) 
You claim UC - which stops your TC

Hindsight is wonderful, but did you think about engaging with UC, explaining that you must have hit the submit button without the full details added.  Although you would have had to confirm the details after pressing submit.

Although you didn’t have the means to add additional info, you could have via your journal and/or your work coach.

As youve claimed UC, the day you hit submit should have closed your TC - so even if you didn’t comply with the process your TC should have stopped and so in theory youve had an overpayment which is now due to be paid back.

Had you continued with the UC claim and fixed the above you would have received a transition protection period which now you will not be afforded, should you re-apply.  If you do the overpayment can be taken from your UC payments.

Algorithm_Blues

Thanks, as you've highlighted, hindsight is a luxury that we don't have. Although at no point did I 'submit' or agree to anything. It was a rather hectic time (traveling up and down the motorway dealing with an elderly family member that lives alone150 miles away) so engaging with, what at the time I perceived to be unsolicited UC demands from an uncompleted form were placed on the back burner.

From my perspective, I feel there was no warning that my 'child tax credits' would instantly be removed because of a simple engagement with an online form. I could have been anyone really in this day and age. I've accepted now that I'll have to reimburse the over payment though. However, I do not agree with the methods.. it's all a bit underhand in my view... but we live and learn.

tomtom256

To get to the stage where commitments are created for you to accept, you would have had to fully submit your claim and have verified your identity either online or in person, so at some point you must have confirmed the claim and conducted an ID check.

poppy12345

Algorithm_Blues said:

From my perspective, I feel there was no warning that my 'child tax credits' would instantly be removed because of a simple engagement with an online form. I could have been anyone really in this day and age. I've accepted now that I'll have to reimburse the over payment though. However, I do not agree with the methods.. it's all a bit underhand in my view... but we live and learn.

When you submitted that claim you would have also had a warning to say that doing so would end a Tax credits claim. 

Algorithm_Blues

tomtom256 said:

To get to the stage where commitments are created for you to accept, you would have had to fully submit your claim and have verified your identity either online or in person, so at some point you must have confirmed the claim and conducted an ID check.

You would think that would be the case. However, I was only filling in the details I had at hand, with the intention to complete the rest later at a point closer to my migration date. There was no claim completion as I was denied the opportunity to go back and check the information that I had just given.

I was simply faced with the option to make a 'commitment' to the details that I'd just made on the previous pages of the application. I didn't feel I could commit to that, as I knew I had left gaps... and definitely no ID check, as it stated that I would have to do that in person. These are the reasons that i feel uncomfortable about this experience and why I'm here looking for some clarification.

Algorithm_Blues

poppy12345 said:

Algorithm_Blues said:

From my perspective, I feel there was no warning that my 'child tax credits' would instantly be removed because of a simple engagement with an online form. I could have been anyone really in this day and age. I've accepted now that I'll have to reimburse the over payment though. However, I do not agree with the methods.. it's all a bit underhand in my view... but we live and learn.

When you submitted that claim you would have also had a warning to say that doing so would end a Tax credits claim. 

Unfortunately that was not the case... certainly not in a format that was immediately obvious. I guess this information could be hidden in the T&Cs somewhere, however this was not clear and upfront. If filling in some details as a precursor to completing the form later is deemed a claim, then that doesn't seem right to me.

peteuk

Algorithm_Blues said:

From my perspective, I feel there was no warning that my 'child tax credits' would instantly be removed because of a simple engagement with an online form. I could have been anyone really in this day and age. I've accepted now that I'll have to reimburse the over payment though. However, I do not agree with the methods.. it's all a bit underhand in my view... but we live and learn.

Nothing underhand - as noted above for you to get to the stage you would have had to fully submit a claim an be advised that your TC will cease.   You may have done this by mistake or in doing so not realised. 

poppy12345

Algorithm_Blues said:

poppy12345 said:

Algorithm_Blues said:

From my perspective, I feel there was no warning that my 'child tax credits' would instantly be removed because of a simple engagement with an online form. I could have been anyone really in this day and age. I've accepted now that I'll have to reimburse the over payment though. However, I do not agree with the methods.. it's all a bit underhand in my view... but we live and learn.

When you submitted that claim you would have also had a warning to say that doing so would end a Tax credits claim. 

Unfortunately that was not the case... certainly not in a format that was immediately obvious. I guess this information could be hidden in the T&Cs somewhere, however this was not clear and upfront. If filling in some details as a precursor to completing the form later is deemed a claim, then that doesn't seem right to me.

It's not hidden anywhere, it pops up as a message on the screen, once you click submit. When you fill out the form, nothing will happen unless YOU actually click "submit" which is why you can start filling out the form in advance of submitting the claim. You can even save it and go back to it and you have 28 days to complete it. If you don't within that time anything you've saved will be lost. 

It's impossible to actually start a claim without submitting it, which you obviously did but didn't realise.