ECP DCB Legal court claim then discontinuation.

soba

Hi there,
I am looking for a little advice if I may?
I am helping my Son to fight some parking fines. He is currently working away with no access to a suitable computer and TBH not comfortable dealing with this kind of situation. I have just settled a previous fine for him to avoid getting a CCJ, also with DCBL. DCBL agreed to remove the CCJ now the fine has been paid. This claim was ignored by my son totally and was at a different location (Southwaite services North M6).

He believed that ignoring everything was the way to go and he is really in no position, financially or mentally, to fight these latest claims.

I have already sent the below templated letter to him to forward onto DCBL via email. I edited it accordingly.

Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ############
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: xxxxxx xxxxxxxx Ltd

I refer to your your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
[Correct address here]

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.
I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully

He had a reply:

Dear **********

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office on 29 th June 2024. For the avoidance of doubt, DCB Legal have been instructed by our Client, Euro Car Parks Limited, to pursue you for the unpaid Parking Charge Notices that were issued on 20 th February 2022 and 25 th March 2022, unless we are instructed otherwise; or the payment of the outstanding balance of £320.00 is made, we will continue to issue legal proceedings. For the purpose of clarity, the sum added is a contribution to the actual costs incurred by our Client as a result of your nonpayment. Our Client’s employees have spent time and material attempting to recover the debt. This is not our Client’s usual business and the resources could have been better spent in other areas of the business. Had you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased. Please note, the HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that Parking Charge Notices fall out of the scope of VAT. As per your request, your file will remain on hold for 30 days from the date of this email. After which, payment of the outstanding balance of £320.00 will be due. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference. Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: - Account Name: DCB Legal Ltd Client Account Sort Code: 20-24-09 Account Number: 60964441 You must quote the correct case reference (120673.1880D) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred. Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 838 7038 to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/. 


Would I be correct in thinking that the next course of action for him (Me) is to create a defence statement as posted below by Coupon-mad?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6108153/suggested-template-defence-to-adapt-for-all-parking-charge-cases-where-they-add-false-admin-costs/p1

I have spent quite a number of hours researching the next step but find that I am going around in circles with dozens of tabs open on my browser.

Signage is a little sparse at the entrance at the site in question: Island Green retail park Wrexham.


Many Thanks
Soba

Gr1pr

Ideally the next step, Which is always the best step, is a complaint to the retail park management team or landowner and get them cancelled, known as plan A in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

At the moment there is no court claim, so no need for the defence template, but always a good idea to plan ahead, by drafting the few paragraphs that may be required, most of it is unchanged and all of the defence template is to be used, if a court claim arrives in the post 

DCBL are debt collectors, powerless, but you are dealing with DCB Legal LTD, the legal section of that firm

Lastly, coupon mad recommends that the recipient person involved reports DCB Legal to HMRC due to Vat concerns, using the reply that was received 

Edit 

And these are NOT fines, magistrates issue fines, these are invoices from a private parking company, a civil dispute matter .  You won't find the legal word FINE on any of the paperwork or signs etc

soba

Gr1pr said:

Ideally the next step, Which is always the best step, is a complaint to the retail park management team or landowner and get them cancelled, known as plan A in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

At the moment there is no court claim, so no need for the defence template, but always a good idea to plan ahead, by drafting the few paragraphs that may be required, most of it is unchanged and all of the defence template is to be used, if a court claim arrives in the post 

DCBL are debt collectors, powerless, but you are dealing with DCB Legal LTD, the legal section of that firm

Lastly, coupon mad recommends that the recipient person involved reports DCB Legal to HMRC due to Vat concerns, using the reply that was received 

Edit 

And these are NOT fines, magistrates issue fines, these are invoices from a private parking company, a civil dispute matter .  You won't find the legal word FINE on any of the paperwork or signs etc

Thank you for your swift response! I will draft a letter to the retail site management.

Soba

soba

soba said:

Gr1pr said:

Ideally the next step, Which is always the best step, is a complaint to the retail park management team or landowner and get them cancelled, known as plan A in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

At the moment there is no court claim, so no need for the defence template, but always a good idea to plan ahead, by drafting the few paragraphs that may be required, most of it is unchanged and all of the defence template is to be used, if a court claim arrives in the post 

DCBL are debt collectors, powerless, but you are dealing with DCB Legal LTD, the legal section of that firm

Lastly, coupon mad recommends that the recipient person involved reports DCB Legal to HMRC due to Vat concerns, using the reply that was received 

Edit 

And these are NOT fines, magistrates issue fines, these are invoices from a private parking company, a civil dispute matter .  You won't find the legal word FINE on any of the paperwork or signs etc

Thank you for your swift response! I will draft a letter to the retail site management.

Soba

Does it make a difference if Euro Car Parks no longer manage parking at that site?

Gr1pr

soba said:

soba said:

Gr1pr said:

Ideally the next step, Which is always the best step, is a complaint to the retail park management team or landowner and get them cancelled, known as plan A in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

At the moment there is no court claim, so no need for the defence template, but always a good idea to plan ahead, by drafting the few paragraphs that may be required, most of it is unchanged and all of the defence template is to be used, if a court claim arrives in the post 

DCBL are debt collectors, powerless, but you are dealing with DCB Legal LTD, the legal section of that firm

Lastly, coupon mad recommends that the recipient person involved reports DCB Legal to HMRC due to Vat concerns, using the reply that was received 

Edit 

And these are NOT fines, magistrates issue fines, these are invoices from a private parking company, a civil dispute matter .  You won't find the legal word FINE on any of the paperwork or signs etc

Thank you for your swift response! I will draft a letter to the retail site management.

Soba

Does it make a difference if Euro Car Parks no longer manage parking at that site?

No, they both contracted with each other at the time, although ECP may ignore the landowner seeing as they no longer have that contract, but on the other hand they may have contracts elsewhere so won't want to annoy the landowner or managing agent 

Don't forget the other things to do, in regards to these PCNs, private parking charge notices

patient_dream

DCBLare misleading you regarding VAT
The parking charge of £100 is excempt but NOT the added fake of £70
DCBL USE A VARIETY OF WORDS in an attempt to hide what the £70 is but it is a collection charge which is NOT VAT excempt

Like many others you should report this misleading statement to HMRC

Le_Kirk

Had you of paid

Oh, no that awful bit of grammar again!  Search the forum for those words and see what others have done.  A report to HMRC is now in order citing VAT concerns.

patient_dream

Le_Kirk said:

Had you of paid

Oh, no that awful bit of grammar again!  Search the forum for those words and see what others have done.  A report to HMRC is now in order citing VAT concerns.

The NEW Chancellor of the Exchequer SHOULD INVESTIGATE what could well be over the last 12 years a very lucrative amount ,,, past and present and the future

soba

Gr1pr said:

soba said:

soba said:

Gr1pr said:

Ideally the next step, Which is always the best step, is a complaint to the retail park management team or landowner and get them cancelled, known as plan A in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

At the moment there is no court claim, so no need for the defence template, but always a good idea to plan ahead, by drafting the few paragraphs that may be required, most of it is unchanged and all of the defence template is to be used, if a court claim arrives in the post 

DCBL are debt collectors, powerless, but you are dealing with DCB Legal LTD, the legal section of that firm

Lastly, coupon mad recommends that the recipient person involved reports DCB Legal to HMRC due to Vat concerns, using the reply that was received 

Edit 

And these are NOT fines, magistrates issue fines, these are invoices from a private parking company, a civil dispute matter .  You won't find the legal word FINE on any of the paperwork or signs etc

Thank you for your swift response! I will draft a letter to the retail site management.

Soba

Does it make a difference if Euro Car Parks no longer manage parking at that site?

No, they both contracted with each other at the time, although ECP may ignore the landowner seeing as they no longer have that contract, but on the other hand they may have contracts elsewhere so won't want to annoy the landowner or managing agent 

Don't forget the other things to do, in regards to these PCNs, private parking charge notices

The site manager for the island green retail park wrexham was very quick to reply over the weekend. He states that because the fines are 2 years old, there is nothing he can do. I guess there is no point flogging this horse?


Thanks

Soba

Copy of conversation below:

Hello Jonathan,

Could you advise me with whom I can raise my objections to 2 parking charge notices received from Island Green Retail Park please?

1. 20/02/2022. The P&D permit purchased did not cover the date and time of parking.

2. 25/03/2022. The P&D permit purchased did not cover the date and time of parking.

I dont believe that signage is sufficient and that the carpark is being controlled by an over zealous money grabbing company that not only drives customers away from this site but causes people to warn other customers and potential customers away from sites like this.

Kindest regards

**********

Good afternoon ******

Thank you for your e-Mail.

Can I first check if the dates you have given are correct or do you mean the dates this year? The system in place is via ANPR so the times are actually generated by cameras that show when each vehicle enters and leaves the retail park and this is then connected to the time paid for when using the P&D machines.

On your signage point, there is signage as you enter the retail park and throughout the car park. The P&D machines are also very visible.

Kind regards

JJ

Jonathan Jessop

Director

Property Management

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

Yes, those dates are correct. 

I am currently facing court action for the 2 parking charge notices and  I am being hounded by an unscrupulous debt collection agency.

There is nothing that compares to this kind of treatment for 'going shopping'.

I now see that Euro car parks no longer manage this site, thankfully.

There is an awfully large amount of bad online reviews for this site most of which relate to parking fines.

The signage at the time was quite small when entering the site, coupled with bad light and weather conditions making it unreadable in those conditions. Black text on a yellow background in poor light does not stand out very well in my opinion.

I believe Euro car parks use this type of sign for the very purpose of entrapment. After all it is the way they make money from innocent shoppers. 

Kindest regards

************



Hi *******

I am afraid there is nothing I can do if the PCNs are two years old.  These should have been appealed at the time.

The retail park has a P&D system in place and as such the customers to the stores have to pay for parking.

Signage is in place across the retail park.

Sorry I cannot assist in this matter.

Kind regards 

JJ

Jonathan Jessop

Director

Property Management

 

Savills, Belvedere , 12 Booth Street , Manchester M2 4AW

Tel :+44 (0) 161 277 7235 Mobile :+44 (0) 7870 555 719 Email : jjessop@savills.com

 

Gr1pr

If Savills are refusing to get involved or cancel, then no point flogging the horse as any further, but at least you have tried your best, keep copies of all correspondence, just in case 

Come back to this thread if it escalates, but ignore the debt collectors letters 

soba

So a quick update. We have received a claim form from the court for the total amount now of £488.44.
So thats is £388.44 amount claimed plus court fee and legal representitive cost.
The original amount they were seeking was for 2 PCN's at £160 each.
Am I now at the stage of writing a defence?

Thanks
Soba