Over stayed by six minutes, seems unfair but do I have grounds? Civil Enforcement PCN

kryten3000

itgoodson said:

Thanks for the helpful reply Coupon-mad. I'm under big pressure from wife and MiL to pay these people what they want! 😂

No hearing date yet. (After that is presumably when the Witness Statement is required).

Forgive me, defending a court claim not an appeal 👍

We tried to change the address for service, but couldn't work out how to do it. Any pointers? I can dig around online alternatively 

You can change the address for service on the Acknowledgement of Service page and also at the N180 stage.

The Defendant has an absolute defence. If they named the driver and provided an address, then any liability was discharged and only the driver is liable for the charge.  

CEL will likely discontinue the claim at some point, please do not pay the scam.

Car1980

I can't see any reference to POFA on the particulars.

The claimant has not brought the claim under any legislation that could make the defendant liable under a contract they were never party to.

The Act doesn't simply apply as if by magic. You have to bring a claim stating you are utilising it.

You're spoilt for defences here.

itgoodson

kryten3000 said:

itgoodson said:

Thanks for the helpful reply Coupon-mad. I'm under big pressure from wife and MiL to pay these people what they want! 😂

No hearing date yet. (After that is presumably when the Witness Statement is required).

Forgive me, defending a court claim not an appeal 👍

We tried to change the address for service, but couldn't work out how to do it. Any pointers? I can dig around online alternatively 

You can change the address for service on the Acknowledgement of Service page and also at the N180 stage.

The Defendant has an absolute defence. If they named the driver and provided an address, then any liability was discharged and only the driver is liable for the charge.  

CEL will likely discontinue the claim at some point, please do not pay the scam.

Forgive me, need to get this address changed so all future correspondence comes care of me. Is this the correct place to do it? 



On another note, bearing in mind the stress this is causing my MiL, I've wondered about sending Civil Enforcement a letter with a cheque for a tenner and stating that this is our only offer and see if they accept. Bad idea?

kryten3000

itgoodson said:

Forgive me, need to get this address changed so all future correspondence comes care of me. Is this the correct place to do it? 



On another note, bearing in mind the stress this is causing my MiL, I've wondered about sending Civil Enforcement a letter with a cheque for a tenner and stating that this is our only offer and see if they accept. Bad idea?

It should be possible to make the change when the claim is acknowledged, if that has been done already you may have to wait for the N180.

Don't send CEL anything.  It will be lost or returned and they won't discontinue the claim.

Send your MiL here for a bit more background on the scam: https://247advice.uk

Hopefully this will help

Coupon-mad

Please take pictures of every page of the generic WS and post them in the right order in a reply on this group thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6632917/cel-witness-statements-group-thread#latest

You'll see why. This is one of dozens on here and we really want everyone to post the WS from Scott Wilson to prove it's a complete template.

itgoodson

I will get those pages from the WS posted, probably tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks kryten3000 for this guide ,https://247advice.uk/Court-Claims/ it has helped, it is a very clear guide.

Here's my issue now:

There is absolutely no way my MiL (the Defendant) is going to take part in any mediation phone calls or, following that, any hearing in person or remote. Not a chance.

But the Defendant should of course be my wife. What's galling is my MiL told CE that it was not her, and initially CE starting sending their letters to my wife. But for some reason the legal action stuff all started going to my MiL. So incredibly frustrating!!!!

Is there any way we can get the court or CE or someone to change the name so it is my wife? I think I know the answer to that. But unfortunately it means we'll just have to pay the scam artists what they want. 😓

kryten3000

itgoodson said:

I will get those pages from the WS posted, probably tomorrow afternoon.

Is there any way we can get the court or CE or someone to change the name so it is my wife? I think I know the answer to that. But unfortunately it means we'll just have to pay the scam artists what they want. 😓

No, you cannot change the defendant at this stage, but you can do all the work on their behalf including attending the mediation call.  The only think they would have to do would be attend a hearing but that's highly unlikely as CEL will probably discontinue nearer any hearing date.  Alternatively they could give notice of non-attendance and allow the hearing to go ahead "on the papers" but that's not recommended.

Why is your MiL so determined not to defend herself and let the scammers win?!

Coupon-mad

unfortunately it means we'll just have to pay the scam artists what they want. 😓 

No it DOESN'T.  Please stop!

Whilst the Defendant's name can't be changed, she won't have to attend ANYTHING. Not even a phone call.

DO NOT FOLD NOW.

Your understanding if this is incorrect.

My goodness this is easy to defend:

- your wife can certainly take the Mediation call. Surely in the N180 section about Mediation, MIL has nominated and provided your wife's email and phone number, not her own? And put 'witnesses: 2'. And your postal address which MIL should have emailed to CEL & the court ages ago, when we first advised that she should state her address for service as your address. It only needed an email! Do it now (obviously in HER name) to take back control of this farce, away from a vulnerable person (to be clear: this ISN'T changing the Defendant. It's changing the D's postal address and nominating your wife to take the call on behalf of MIL).

- the driver DOES NOT MAKE AN OFFER at the Mediation call. Your wife simply states that CEL are pursuing the wrong person as a matter of law and CEL should have realised this, and if they wish to pursue the driver they'll have to discontinue this one against MIL and re-issue the claim to her (your wife, whose details they knew well before litigation).

- later on, as a hearing date is given, your wife can provide a signed WS alongside MIL's and then either BOTH could attend the hearing (MIL really should, it's not a big deal. I'm a retired lady and I've attended several) or just your wife can go, given she will be a witness.

- anything goes in small claims and most Judges would let a witness speak (as long as she has filed & served a WS before the hearing) and would be highly unlikely to turn away your wife if she attended alone. As said above, MIL could  - nearer the time, not now - give notice of non attendance but state that the other witness - the driver - will be there.

- and CEL are highly likely to discontinue anyway so I doubt any hearing will ever go ahead.

Speak to your wife and put out of your minds the idea of paying CEL money.

The whole issue was probably caused by your wife (perhaps?) ignoring the contact from CEL. She only had to reply and CEL would never have reverted to MIL. Not that it was legal for them to do that: it wasn't! But to protect a keeper the nominated driver should always respond to wave at the scammers and say 'yes I'm the driver now go swivel'.

I assume that wasn't done. So the above is how to get it back in the control of the driver now. Without paying.