Parking in own space/IAS as Kangaroo court/complaint to MA and freeholder

h2g2

Any of the legally trained people here: is there a good template somewhere for an LBC for this type of thing?

It's becoming increasingly common and having a template "I own this space, you have no right to enforce it. Here's the rulings from UKCP v Davey, here's the ruling from Saeed v Plustrade, and here's the ruling from Link vs Mrs P. Read them and then tell the PPC to f*ck off" type letter with the correct language and without shooting ourselves in the foot would be increasingly useful.

D_P_Dance

 throw out the MA and replace them with a new one made from residents.

Not as easy as it sounds.  Many years ago I owned a flat in a five block complex.  Another resident, (a bit of a know all), took this on but had  upset some of the other residents and could not get their agreement.  He ended up some  £2000+ out of pocket

It is a long and difficult process

KoalaMSEF

D_P_Dance said:

 throw out the MA and replace them with a new one made from residents.

Not as easy as it sounds.  Many years ago I owned a flat in a five block complex.  Another resident, (a bit of a know all), took this on but had  upset some of the other residents and could not get their agreement.  He ended up some  £2000+ out of pocket

It is a long and difficult process

There is also debt issue. Collectives sound good in theory, but in reality, it is very very tricky. 

KoalaMSEF

I wrote the following (I am academically trained, so I read and write academic texts for a living). But frankly, they won't listen. They are just like machine, spitting out words as programmed. The only thing they repeat now is "please pay, please pay, please pay..." hoping that you give in either by annoyance or by fear because they will threaten you. 

In addition to that, according to IAS, once the liabilities were established [by the parking company], only the parking company can remove it. That is to say, if the parking company finds you are liable, that's it. All other IAS etc. are not going to change that. IAS has covered their as* by claiming that they are not a legal body and they can only evaluate the 'liabilities established' which was pre-established by the parking company. Your establishment of alternatives will be completely ignored and disregarded. The whole system is set up to make it look like you are at fault once they think you are at fault. The rest is just illusion. The parking company probably has little sense about power dynamics with other parties and they are exposed to legal risks set up by other parties. 

I do wonder if they got paid by the MA or they pay the MA to manage the estate (and recoup their investment by selling permit for a fee, that is at least 2k for a 100 resident development) and putting charges on the residents' cars). 

Common sense wise, this should be quite simple. We bought the property but we did not know the permit as our lease has not said so. And this is our full lease that shows our ownership, then, the charges should be removed with no further complication provided that the permit was sought or opted out after acknowledgement. Somehow, these parking companies bully, threaten, beg, all sorts. Frankly, this is a good business model for money racketeering.  

Once they force you into a contract based on their sign on the wall, which is their establishment of liabilities, you are very likely to be found liable. The foundation for this case IS the lease. This is what the case laws have said repeatedly. A sticky note on the wall cannot override lease as a legal document. 

(1) Only lease is the contract we are entering by parking in our own space, not their sticky note (2) if MA insisted their right to hire a parking company, which is dubious and questionable, this put MA into a principal-agent relationship with the parking company, thus, MA holds vicarious liabilities for anything that the parking company has done that violate our rights. MA cannot shrink their responsibilities. They cannot say this is the parking company, thus we have nothing to do with it, because MA is in the lease, not the parking company. 

------------
"Dear xxx, 

We are the new owners of the flat and our lease has granted us unfettered access to our parking space. We have the right to park, and you have trespassed our space by putting charges on our car.

 

We have spoken to [MA], who has hired your company in the first place. Mr xxx, the manager at [MA] has spoken to somebody in your company. The understanding is that these two charges will be removed as a goodwill gesture. 

 

[We attached our full lease here]

 

In addition, please note that the case law has also been clear on our rights. In Pace v Mr N [2016] C6GF14F0 [2016], it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant’s right to park by requiring a permit to park. In Link Parking v Ms P C7GF50J7 [2016], It was also found that the parking company could not override the tenant’s right to park by requiring a permit to park. 

.... "

Le_Kirk

KoalaMSEF said:

"Dear xxx, 

We are the new owners of the flat and our lease has granted us unfretted unfettered access to our parking space. We have the right to park, and you have trespassed our space by putting charges on our car.

Always worth checking for errors!

KoalaMSEF

Hi guys, haven't been here for a while as we thought things have been dealt with - after sending PPC our lease, telling them the legal bits, getting MA to speak to them. 

Now we have an interesting development. After 2 months, we have now received first letter from some legal, which I interpreted as debt collector. It looks like PPC has told MA to get us to 'appeal' and they 'are happy to help.' In reality, they continued to harass. 

Eye opening. I wonder maybe I should prepare for the court. Any thoughts? 

KeithP

Tell us more about this 'some legal'.
Who exactly are you talking about?
What have they said?

KoalaMSEF

Debt collector company, bw legal, asking for 320 quid now. First round. 

Gr1pr

A different scenario but Britannia parking and B W Legal just lost the case below 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81043018#Comment_81043018?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=b+w+legal+

There is no reason to think that Parking and Property Management ltd are going to succeed in a residential case like yours

Coupon-mad

KoalaMSEF said:

Debt collector company, bw legal, asking for 320 quid now. First round. 

Your stage is post 4 of the NEWBIES thread.