Parking in own space/IAS as Kangaroo court/complaint to MA and freeholder

Half_way

Look at it this way, the parking space is yours, and is part of the property, just like the bathroom /lavatory.

Would you accept a permit to flush the lavatory after 10pm, with a failure to show a permit in the window resulting in a charge of £100 (reduced to £60 for early payment discount) for each flush?

LDast

Unfortunately, for you, your other half is what these unregulated private parking companies consider to be low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree. The ignorance of the majority of the general public when it comes to CCJs is a prime example of the failure of our education system. Reliance on the CAB is another prime example of how not to deal with PCNs from private parking companies. They are clueless as proven by your option 1.5.

You should try and explain all that to your husband otherwise he really is low-hanging fruit ripe for the picking by these scammers. Either that or maybe find a new one. Seriously though, if you want to hook this away from your husband and his irrational fears, simply get him to transfer liability to you as the driver and then you can deal with it.

What is important is that only terms that are specifically included or specifically excluded in your lease are applicable. The MA nor the leaseholder can alter or vary anything in your lease on a whim. There is a full legal process that has to be followed before anything can be changed or varied. If you're interested in what the process involves, have a look at the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, section 37.

Without knowing what the "covenants" in para 9.1 of schedule 5 are, there does not appear to be anything in what you have shown us that requires you to display a permit nor anything that give the MA the right to contract a third party that is allowed to issue you with speculative invoices of £100 per day to use your own demised parking space.

It would appear that your right to park in your demised space is being fettered by a third party. You should be going after the MA and your conveyancer. Even if they do issue you with a permit you should demand that you are opted out of any scheme that fetters your right to quiet enjoyment. If you accept a permit, just wait for the next time when the permit falls off or expires and they delay sending you a new one. You are on the path to misery and lots of time wasting if you let the MA get away with their seedy deal with a bunch of ex-clamper thugs.

KoalaMSEF

Thanks all who have commented so far. I appreciated your time.

I need no persuasion but unfortunately, I do not drive in this country (a learner driver license), although I do have full drivers licences in two other countries. 

I have no doubt that we have our right to park as I read the lease and all other documents during the conveyancing process. That's why I insisted 'appeal' naively believe this was a mistake and can be corrected by showing them the lease and explained our status. Of course, how low and shameless these companies are really shocks me. 

I've emailed the conveyancer this morning. They have replied, in black and white, that our specific parking bay is not subjected to parking control but anywhere outside the circle of that bay does. They said that MA can change our parking bay but as far as I can see from the solicitor's document, our parking bay hasn't changed a bit. And we parked squarely in the middle of the circle (not a single tire on the line), as parking company's own picture can show that. I will leave them for now, as they are aware the dispute here. 

I have sent a formal complaint to the MA, who wrote "the parking company has the right to fine you" in black and white. I think MA got paid by the parking company, not the other way around, although I have no evidence. I'm waiting for the MA to respond in now 14 working days. 

h2g2

It might be worth asking if the conveyancers can write to the MA/freeholder explaining that charges cannot be levied against the leaseholder. Seeing a letter from an actual law firm might just make think twice about trying to hoodwink you.

Best case scenario is that your conveyancers agree to enforce your rights for you. Maybe pointing out to your conveyancers that they should have otherwise warned you about the possibility of parking charges might help persuade them - but don't be too forceful with them. You're trying to encourage them to help you, after all.

It could make MA think twice if they have to justify the existence of a PPC to every single conveyancer. Then again, it might make a flat with a PPC in the car park even harder to sell, so I'm not sure.

Half_way

Another aspect:

 The Parking company can only access personal data if it has a just cause to do so, ie obtaining and processing registered keeper data.

 This means that they should take out due diligence to ensure that they have just cause, if its not their land then no just cause would exist. As principal, the Management company is liable for the actions of its agents.

 Likewise, if the management company has said Yes to the PPC starting operations without itself checking to see it has just cause to do so the management company could be liable for a GDPR breach.

The management can not impose a third party parking company on residents and then expect the residents to pay £100 ( or whatever) for whatever rules the parking company makes up this is a variation of the lease, and any such variation has to be agreed upon by the residents in a poll - other regulars on here will be able to elaborate on that.

You must be proactive in dealing with the management company, if anyone pays a parking charge notice then this *could* be seen as an acceptance of the terms and in effect you will be giving up your parking space to a third party to do with as they please.

Your demands to the Management company are simple, the must

•  Cancel all parking charge notices issued so far, even if this is at an expense to them or their employees
•  Remove the un regulated parking company from the area/grounds
• Only appoint fully regulated parking companies in future that are not members of either the BPA of the IPC as these organisations are not regulatory bodies, just private trade associations

You must also remind the management company that they are jointly liable for the actions of their agents, including any GDPR issues that arise from their agents accessing, processing and storing registered keeper data and that GDPR also includes a personal liability clause where the individual may also face action against themselves on a personal basis for any GDPR breach , i.e. the individual within the management company who signed the contract with the parking company may themselves face prosecution

You need to come down like a ton of bricks on the management company

KoalaMSEF

h2g2 said:

It might be worth asking if the conveyancers can write to the MA/freeholder explaining that charges cannot be levied against the leaseholder. Seeing a letter from an actual law firm might just make think twice about trying to hoodwink you.

Best case scenario is that your conveyancers agree to enforce your rights for you. Maybe pointing out to your conveyancers that they should have otherwise warned you about the possibility of parking charges might help persuade them - but don't be too forceful with them. You're trying to encourage them to help you, after all.

It could make MA think twice if they have to justify the existence of a PPC to every single conveyancer. Then again, it might make a flat with a PPC in the car park even harder to sell, so I'm not sure.

Thanks. Will ask. 

KoalaMSEF

Thanks @Half_way. Any case I can cite? Have sent a complaint last Thursday and will do another one tomorrow. 

Coupon-mad

I hope your OH has not paid?  Don't let him pay.  Please can you show us (minus names & email addresses) the email from the CAB that wrongly advised this rubbish?

"Option 1.5 - pay and small claim court (CAB's advice)."

Ludicrous. Just so wrong. I'd like to see that please or was it an adviser telling you the wrong thing verbally?

KoalaMSEF

Coupon-mad said:

I hope your OH has not paid?  Don't let him pay.  Please can you show us (minus names & email addresses) the email from the CAB that wrongly advised this rubbish?

"Option 1.5 - pay and small claim court (CAB's advice)."

Ludicrous. Just so wrong. I'd like to see that please or was it an adviser telling you the wrong thing verbally?

No. He tried to pay yesterday and I stopped him. The deadline is next Thursday. I'm afraid I can't stop him much longer. 

Fired up another complaint to MA. Our solicitors have agreed to speak to MA for clarification this morning, as apparently, during the conveyancing, our solicitor was told, the particular parking bay is NOT under control but any surrounding area is. Somebody has lied in the process. 

CAB's advice is out there in their website. I can't post link now as I'm a newbie at this forum. The page is named - Appealing a parking ticket - citizens advice. 

CAB's web chat went straight into debt. When I said this was not about debt, she kicked me out. So Never went back to it after. 

KoalaMSEF

@Coupon-mad

On their website 

If your formal appeal is rejected or you can't appeal

There are still things you can do but you’ll risk having to pay more money in the end. You might be better off just paying your parking ticket.

Let the parking company take you to court

You can choose not to pay your parking ticket and the parking company will decide if it’s worth taking you to court.

If the parking company takes you to court and you lose:

• you’ll have to pay the fine, which could go up by then

• you might have to pay court costs - these could be expensive

If you win:

• you won’t have to pay the fine

• the parking company might have to pay court costs

Pay and make a small claim to get the money back

If you don’t want the parking company to take you to court, you should pay your parking ticket - this will stop the fine going up.

When you pay, you should say you’re ‘paying under protest’. It’s a good idea to put it in writing so you can keep a copy.

Then you can go to court and make a ‘small claim’ to try to get your money back - 

....

If you’re claiming because your parking ticket was unfair, you might have to make 2 separate claims. You’ll also have to pay 2 fees.

The first claim is to agree that your parking ticket is unfair. If the court agrees that it is, the parking company has to cancel the fine.

The second claim is to decide how much the fine should have been if it was fair. The court might decide that you still have to pay a fine, but it should be smaller.