Cash withdrawn from my account in branch by thief!

Mrcsmrs

born_again said:

Mrcsmrs said:

born_again said:

BooJewels said:

I don't do counter transactions very often - especially now they've shut all the local branches down - but I don't think I've ever been asked for separate ID - putting the card into the terminal with your PIN was the security check.  I have a NW account, but never been into a branch, so don't know their procedure. If their limit was £100 ‐ why not take £98, not £77.

If the person withdrawing didn't have the PIN because it was a dodgy card - then just buying stuff with contactless would be far less risky to them - they could have got a decent haul in a short period of time.  I'm still erring towards a glitch in the Matrix above fraud.

Fraudsters don't go to the bother of creating a cloned card with contactless facility. It simply is not cost effective.

So this would explain why it wasn’t used in a shop, but doesn’t explain how someone in my old home town knew my card details when I haven’t given them out and I don’t use the physical card very often, and hadn’t apart from one contact keys transaction in April and a cash machine withdrawal in March, both of which incidentally were up here, almost 200 miles away. 

And this is why it points to a simple mis keying issue. 

Unless someone had found a old card & decided to try using it. Which could explain the swipe of the card. But that would be very stupid for £77, as they will have CCTV.

It certainly wont have anything to do with you using your card & being copied.

Perhaps I am showing my ignorance here, but I do not understand how it can be mis keying when the card was swiped and the branch advisor confirmed the card number used on the phone to the fraud advisor to be my current card number, which I held in my hand on the call. It also just seems like way too much of a coincidence that out of all the branches in the country it just so happened to be at the branch in my old home town. 

My concern is that Nationwide have mistakenly sent a card to my old address and I feel this way because they have mistakenly sent me other people’s private documents in the past so it’s clearly not out of the realms of  possibility. Far more likely than some random mis keying issue happening in my previous local branch. Either way I think I am done with Nationwide now, been with them my whole banking life and this is the last in a list of errors that have caused distress and taken a long time to resolve. Each time, they have been at fault yet it has taken me weeks to resolve the issues. Their so called safe guards seem to prevent me accessing my own money, but permit them to hand it out over the counter to someone else. 

I’m sure they’ll tell me it’s a miss keying issue but if that’s the case why isn’t it resolved yet? They told me 48 hours for something simple like a human error, yet here we are a week later and no further forward. 

AstonSmith

Question for anyone: is it possible to program a stolen card number (e.g. leaked online) onto the magnetic strip of a card? What if someone did that, and damaged the chip so it forced the bank to swipe the card and signature (no PIN)?

I don't understand how it could be a mis-keying, but I've never worked in a bank. Wouldn't the account details populate on the screen from the information on the card? What key(s) could be pressed to accidentally switch to someone else's account without some sort of authentication? It doesn't make sense.

DE_612183

Ergates said:

DE_612183 said:

Ergates said:

Mrcsmrs said:

Plus I honestly can’t see the police doing anything about such a big organisation not refunding me £77. I hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be anyone’s priority, except mine! 

The police certainly wouldn't do anything about that.   But not because it's only £77 or because Nationwide are a large organisation - because it would be a civil matter.  The only reason Nationwide would not refund you the money is if they conclude that it was you who withdrew it.  If they do this then the next step will be to raise a formal complaint with them.  If this doesn't work, then the next step after that would be the FOS.  At no point would Nationwide not refunding you become a police matter.

Why is theft or fraud not a criminal matter?

The theft/fraud would be - Nationwide deciding it isn't theft/fraud and not refunding the money wouldn't be.  That would be a civil matter between OP and Nationwide.

Unless you're suggesting that Nationwide have stolen OP's money?

No, but if the OP is left out of pocket by £77 by no fault of their own - then that is either theft or fraud.

Mrcsmrs

AstonSmith said:

Question for anyone: is it possible to program a stolen card number (e.g. leaked online) onto the magnetic strip of a card? What if someone did that, and damaged the chip so it forced the bank to swipe the card and signature (no PIN)?

I don't understand how it could be a mis-keying, but I've never worked in a bank. Wouldn't the account details populate on the screen from the information on the card? What key(s) could be pressed to accidentally switch to someone else's account without some sort of authentication? It doesn't make sense.

Thank you, that is exactly my thought on the matter. Surely the card provided the account details so how could the staff member have keyed anything that changed the account details? 

I believe it is possible to add details to a fake card that way, isn’t that how cloned cards work? Someone else has said that it’s too costly to add contactless functionality but surely this happens with cloned cards so they can be used in stores? 

born_again

Mrcsmrs said:

born_again said:

Mrcsmrs said:

born_again said:

BooJewels said:

I don't do counter transactions very often - especially now they've shut all the local branches down - but I don't think I've ever been asked for separate ID - putting the card into the terminal with your PIN was the security check.  I have a NW account, but never been into a branch, so don't know their procedure. If their limit was £100 ‐ why not take £98, not £77.

If the person withdrawing didn't have the PIN because it was a dodgy card - then just buying stuff with contactless would be far less risky to them - they could have got a decent haul in a short period of time.  I'm still erring towards a glitch in the Matrix above fraud.

Fraudsters don't go to the bother of creating a cloned card with contactless facility. It simply is not cost effective.

So this would explain why it wasn’t used in a shop, but doesn’t explain how someone in my old home town knew my card details when I haven’t given them out and I don’t use the physical card very often, and hadn’t apart from one contact keys transaction in April and a cash machine withdrawal in March, both of which incidentally were up here, almost 200 miles away. 

And this is why it points to a simple mis keying issue. 

Unless someone had found a old card & decided to try using it. Which could explain the swipe of the card. But that would be very stupid for £77, as they will have CCTV.

It certainly wont have anything to do with you using your card & being copied.

Perhaps I am showing my ignorance here, but I do not understand how it can be mis keying when the card was swiped and the branch advisor confirmed the card number used on the phone to the fraud advisor to be my current card number, which I held in my hand on the call. It also just seems like way too much of a coincidence that out of all the branches in the country it just so happened to be at the branch in my old home town. 

My concern is that Nationwide have mistakenly sent a card to my old address and I feel this way because they have mistakenly sent me other people’s private documents in the past so it’s clearly not out of the realms of  possibility. Far more likely than some random mis keying issue happening in my previous local branch. Either way I think I am done with Nationwide now, been with them my whole banking life and this is the last in a list of errors that have caused distress and taken a long time to resolve. Each time, they have been at fault yet it has taken me weeks to resolve the issues. Their so called safe guards seem to prevent me accessing my own money, but permit them to hand it out over the counter to someone else. 

I’m sure they’ll tell me it’s a miss keying issue but if that’s the case why isn’t it resolved yet? They told me 48 hours for something simple like a human error, yet here we are a week later and no further forward. 

As to why it takes so long was answered many posts ago. In effect they deal with cases in turn. 
In certain cases we can resolve on a call. Cases like this no chance as there is a lot of details to be obtained, which take time. Before a decision can be made. 

No idea on how NW systems work on linking a swiped card to a account. Ours would not allow that method. 

Kim_13

I have never drawn cash out of Nationwide, but I have paid it in and the cashier quickly writes the sort code and account number on a slip which says how many of which note were paid in. It occurred to me that it would be quite easy for two digits to end up the wrong way around. Presumably there must be a similar slip when cash is drawn out, so they know what notes they should have in the till when it comes to balancing it at the end of the shift/day/week, however they do it. What they would do if there was a mismatch between the swiped card and the written record, I don’t know.

By the time you’ve cleared security, the staff presumably have your card number in front of them so could read that out to confirm the card(s) active on your account, whether a swipe had actually taken place or not. Cards should be swiped, that is the normal process, but they obviously have a workaround otherwise they’d be closed every time the computer system was down. If there is a cloned card, I wouldn’t rule out the override being used when there was a read error.

If a card is compromised from the cashpoint or a chip and pin terminal having been tampered with, the fraudster may well have the card details and pin. They don’t need a working contactless card therefore, just one that looks convincing if seen by anyone. 

Mrcsmrs

Kim_13 said:

I have never drawn cash out of Nationwide, but I have paid it in and the cashier quickly writes the sort code and account number on a slip which says how many of which note were paid in. It occurred to me that it would be quite easy for two digits to end up the wrong way around. Presumably there must be a similar slip when cash is drawn out, so they know what notes they should have in the till when it comes to balancing it at the end of the shift/day/week, however they do it. What they would do if there was a mismatch between the swiped card and the written record, I don’t know.

By the time you’ve cleared security, the staff presumably have your card number in front of them so could read that out to confirm the card(s) active on your account, whether a swipe had actually taken place or not. Cards should be swiped, that is the normal process, but they obviously have a workaround otherwise they’d be closed every time the computer system was down. If there is a cloned card, I wouldn’t rule out the override being used when there was a read error.

If a card is compromised from the cashpoint or a chip and pin terminal having been tampered with, the fraudster may well have the card details and pin. They don’t need a working contactless card therefore, just one that looks convincing if seen by anyone. 

I’d agree with you, except that the branch staff member read out the number of the card swiped to the fraud advisor over the phone. Fraud team advisor then confirmed it was my current card. It’s also highly unlikely it’s been compromised from a chip and pin terminal or a cash machine as I just don’t use them. I rarely use this account at all, and when I do it’s Apple Pay, and even that hasn’t been used since April with the last atm withdrawal being February I think. 

I just want to understand how it’s been possible for this to happen. 

DE_612183

Mrcsmrs said:

Kim_13 said:

I have never drawn cash out of Nationwide, but I have paid it in and the cashier quickly writes the sort code and account number on a slip which says how many of which note were paid in. It occurred to me that it would be quite easy for two digits to end up the wrong way around. Presumably there must be a similar slip when cash is drawn out, so they know what notes they should have in the till when it comes to balancing it at the end of the shift/day/week, however they do it. What they would do if there was a mismatch between the swiped card and the written record, I don’t know.

By the time you’ve cleared security, the staff presumably have your card number in front of them so could read that out to confirm the card(s) active on your account, whether a swipe had actually taken place or not. Cards should be swiped, that is the normal process, but they obviously have a workaround otherwise they’d be closed every time the computer system was down. If there is a cloned card, I wouldn’t rule out the override being used when there was a read error.

If a card is compromised from the cashpoint or a chip and pin terminal having been tampered with, the fraudster may well have the card details and pin. They don’t need a working contactless card therefore, just one that looks convincing if seen by anyone. 

I’d agree with you, except that the branch staff member read out the number of the card swiped to the fraud advisor over the phone. Fraud team advisor then confirmed it was my current card. It’s also highly unlikely it’s been compromised from a chip and pin terminal or a cash machine as I just don’t use them. I rarely use this account at all, and when I do it’s Apple Pay, and even that hasn’t been used since April with the last atm withdrawal being February I think. 

I just want to understand how it’s been possible for this to happen. 

Are you sure it was the number of the card swiped - or the number on the withdrawal slip ( which would have been hand-written )?

Mrcsmrs

DE_612183 said:

Mrcsmrs said:

Kim_13 said:

I have never drawn cash out of Nationwide, but I have paid it in and the cashier quickly writes the sort code and account number on a slip which says how many of which note were paid in. It occurred to me that it would be quite easy for two digits to end up the wrong way around. Presumably there must be a similar slip when cash is drawn out, so they know what notes they should have in the till when it comes to balancing it at the end of the shift/day/week, however they do it. What they would do if there was a mismatch between the swiped card and the written record, I don’t know.

By the time you’ve cleared security, the staff presumably have your card number in front of them so could read that out to confirm the card(s) active on your account, whether a swipe had actually taken place or not. Cards should be swiped, that is the normal process, but they obviously have a workaround otherwise they’d be closed every time the computer system was down. If there is a cloned card, I wouldn’t rule out the override being used when there was a read error.

If a card is compromised from the cashpoint or a chip and pin terminal having been tampered with, the fraudster may well have the card details and pin. They don’t need a working contactless card therefore, just one that looks convincing if seen by anyone. 

I’d agree with you, except that the branch staff member read out the number of the card swiped to the fraud advisor over the phone. Fraud team advisor then confirmed it was my current card. It’s also highly unlikely it’s been compromised from a chip and pin terminal or a cash machine as I just don’t use them. I rarely use this account at all, and when I do it’s Apple Pay, and even that hasn’t been used since April with the last atm withdrawal being February I think. 

I just want to understand how it’s been possible for this to happen. 

Are you sure it was the number of the card swiped - or the number on the withdrawal slip ( which would have been hand-written )?

They told me it was the number of the card swiped and at that point I don’t think they had found the transaction slip, but I could be remembering incorrectly. 

sheramber

It’s also highly unlikely it’s been compromised from a chip and pin terminal or a cash machine as I just don’t use them.

But you used in February. Why do you think it could not have happened then?

No doubt it akes time to produce the cloned card and they probably sell it on so there will be a delay before such a card is used.

But there is not much to be served by trying to answer questions that only Nationwide can answer.

The chances if you ever knowing what or how it happened are probably very slim.