Cash withdrawn from my account in branch by thief!

born_again

BooJewels said:

I don't do counter transactions very often - especially now they've shut all the local branches down - but I don't think I've ever been asked for separate ID - putting the card into the terminal with your PIN was the security check.  I have a NW account, but never been into a branch, so don't know their procedure. If their limit was £100 ‐ why not take £98, not £77.

If the person withdrawing didn't have the PIN because it was a dodgy card - then just buying stuff with contactless would be far less risky to them - they could have got a decent haul in a short period of time.  I'm still erring towards a glitch in the Matrix above fraud.

Fraudsters don't go to the bother of creating a cloned card with contactless facility. It simply is not cost effective.

Mrcsmrs

MeteredOut said:

OP, just to set expectations, the most likely outcome here is that you will get your £77 back but you will NOT be told what actually happened. Banks just don't share that information, even to the customers involved.

If this £77 missing from your account is causing you hardship, you should raise a complaint with the bank and they often have facilities in place to support customers in the rare situation you find yourself in.

Otherwise, it’s just best to wait on the outcome.

That would be an issue for me, without knowing what happened and how I won’t be able to trust them again. If it is fraud I don’t need to know who did it, but I do want to know how so that I can protect myself. The £77 isn’t going to cause me any hardship but the fact that I don’t feel I can trust the bank now is far more important. I asked them when I reported it whether they would tell me how it had happened and she said they would but I didn’t believe her then either, because as you say, they don’t like telling anyone anything. 

Mrcsmrs

friolento said:

Mrcsmrs said:

DE_612183 said:

Mrcsmrs said:

DE_612183 said:

badmemory said:

What seems really strange to me is that they could have gone into a dozen small shops & made a load of card purchases with no issues at all so why didn't they.  I mean why go into a bank with security cameras when you could go into a long series of small shops without any cameras & even get cash back & if asked for a pin number well oh dear it is so long since I used it I can't remember.  A friend of mine had his stolen out of his office & it was used lots of times in the next hour & then never used again.

This is what I thought, which is why I think there is a genuine reason for this rather than fraud / theft.

Completely agree, it doesn’t make any sense, except what are the chances that this would happen in a town I lived in three years ago? That bit makes absolutely no sense. The account wasn’t opened there, I can only remember going into the branch once in the 15 years I lived there and that was because they’d suddenly managed to transpose the digits in my date of birth and I had to prove them with my passport. The account was opened online when I lived in a completely different area and county. That it’s this town is the strangest thing about a really strange thing to happen. 

Nationwide initially saying I’d have the money back in 48 hours and should keep checking my app, just to change their minds and say it takes much longer and they’ll let me know their decision as if there’s no guarantee I’ll get my money back? When I’ve checked and I’m not protected against fraud of someone taking it out in the branch. It’s not covered in the list of what they’ll refund. So where does that leave me? 

It leaves you waiting for their investigation & response.

If they don't give you the money back - then you contact the police.

I’m not good at waiting. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the sort to be rude or belligerent and I get that they have jobs to do. I wouldn’t ever be abusive to individual staff but the process isn’t helping. 

Plus I honestly can’t see the police doing anything about such a big organisation not refunding me £77. I hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be anyone’s priority, except mine! 

Patience is a virtue. It will be resolved in time, with or without you having to escalate the matter to the FOS. It’s not as if you’ll need to eat cardboard because of the missing £77, and you are likely to get a nice compensation which will be massively more than the interest you could make in a year from £77. 

I agree that the Police would do nothing about this minor ‘crime’, and I hope you won’t need to waste your MP’s time over it as just about all MPs have way more pressing matters to attend to (after they return from their impending summer recess 😂).

You could consider going to your local newspaper if you have one, or to the Personal Finance agony aunts/uncles at iNews, Telegraph, Daily Mail, Guardian etc. They often like to pick up consumer issues as it gives them something to fill their columns.

Thank you. I don’t have any intention of taking it any further unless Nationwide won’t resolve it fairly. That said I do want to know how it was possible. 

Mrcsmrs

born_again said:

BooJewels said:

I don't do counter transactions very often - especially now they've shut all the local branches down - but I don't think I've ever been asked for separate ID - putting the card into the terminal with your PIN was the security check.  I have a NW account, but never been into a branch, so don't know their procedure. If their limit was £100 ‐ why not take £98, not £77.

If the person withdrawing didn't have the PIN because it was a dodgy card - then just buying stuff with contactless would be far less risky to them - they could have got a decent haul in a short period of time.  I'm still erring towards a glitch in the Matrix above fraud.

Fraudsters don't go to the bother of creating a cloned card with contactless facility. It simply is not cost effective.

So this would explain why it wasn’t used in a shop, but doesn’t explain how someone in my old home town knew my card details when I haven’t given them out and I don’t use the physical card very often, and hadn’t apart from one contact keys transaction in April and a cash machine withdrawal in March, both of which incidentally were up here, almost 200 miles away. 

GeoffTF

Mrcsmrs said:

That would be an issue for me, without knowing what happened and how I won’t be able to trust them again. If it is fraud I don’t need to know who did it, but I do want to know how so that I can protect myself.

If banks told their customers how frauds were carried out, the criminals would soon get the hear about and use the same methods. It is better for them to lose a few customers than let that happen. Moving your account is not going to do any good. The next bank will not tell you how it was done if you are hit again.

born_again

Mrcsmrs said:

born_again said:

BooJewels said:

I don't do counter transactions very often - especially now they've shut all the local branches down - but I don't think I've ever been asked for separate ID - putting the card into the terminal with your PIN was the security check.  I have a NW account, but never been into a branch, so don't know their procedure. If their limit was £100 ‐ why not take £98, not £77.

If the person withdrawing didn't have the PIN because it was a dodgy card - then just buying stuff with contactless would be far less risky to them - they could have got a decent haul in a short period of time.  I'm still erring towards a glitch in the Matrix above fraud.

Fraudsters don't go to the bother of creating a cloned card with contactless facility. It simply is not cost effective.

So this would explain why it wasn’t used in a shop, but doesn’t explain how someone in my old home town knew my card details when I haven’t given them out and I don’t use the physical card very often, and hadn’t apart from one contact keys transaction in April and a cash machine withdrawal in March, both of which incidentally were up here, almost 200 miles away. 

And this is why it points to a simple mis keying issue. 

Unless someone had found a old card & decided to try using it. Which could explain the swipe of the card. But that would be very stupid for £77, as they will have CCTV.

It certainly wont have anything to do with you using your card & being copied.

Ergates

Mrcsmrs said:

Plus I honestly can’t see the police doing anything about such a big organisation not refunding me £77. I hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be anyone’s priority, except mine! 

The police certainly wouldn't do anything about that.   But not because it's only £77 or because Nationwide are a large organisation - because it would be a civil matter.  The only reason Nationwide would not refund you the money is if they conclude that it was you who withdrew it.  If they do this then the next step will be to raise a formal complaint with them.  If this doesn't work, then the next step after that would be the FOS.  At no point would Nationwide not refunding you become a police matter.

DE_612183

Ergates said:

Mrcsmrs said:

Plus I honestly can’t see the police doing anything about such a big organisation not refunding me £77. I hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be anyone’s priority, except mine! 

The police certainly wouldn't do anything about that.   But not because it's only £77 or because Nationwide are a large organisation - because it would be a civil matter.  The only reason Nationwide would not refund you the money is if they conclude that it was you who withdrew it.  If they do this then the next step will be to raise a formal complaint with them.  If this doesn't work, then the next step after that would be the FOS.  At no point would Nationwide not refunding you become a police matter.

Why is theft or fraud not a criminal matter?

Ergates

DE_612183 said:

Ergates said:

Mrcsmrs said:

Plus I honestly can’t see the police doing anything about such a big organisation not refunding me £77. I hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be anyone’s priority, except mine! 

The police certainly wouldn't do anything about that.   But not because it's only £77 or because Nationwide are a large organisation - because it would be a civil matter.  The only reason Nationwide would not refund you the money is if they conclude that it was you who withdrew it.  If they do this then the next step will be to raise a formal complaint with them.  If this doesn't work, then the next step after that would be the FOS.  At no point would Nationwide not refunding you become a police matter.

Why is theft or fraud not a criminal matter?

The theft/fraud would be - Nationwide deciding it isn't theft/fraud and not refunding the money wouldn't be.  That would be a civil matter between OP and Nationwide.

Unless you're suggesting that Nationwide have stolen OP's money?

BooJewels

The issue is, if as previously discussed, the bank don't tell the OP what has happened, there will be little information she personally can take to the Police. 

Either NW will decide that it's an internal error, for which they'll pay some compo and return her money and give little detail, or if they decide it was a 20 year old bloke at the counter, pretending to be her, clearly up to no good - in which case, they'll be the ones to take it to the Police - as they'll have the evidence.  At which point, the Police may then well speak to the OP about it, as a victim/witness.