Cash withdrawn from my account in branch by thief!

Ergates

badmemory said:

What seems really strange to me is that they could have gone into a dozen small shops & made a load of card purchases with no issues at all so why didn't they.  I mean why go into a bank with security cameras when you could go into a long series of small shops without any cameras & even get cash back & if asked for a pin number well oh dear it is so long since I used it I can't remember.  A friend of mine had his stolen out of his office & it was used lots of times in the next hour & then never used again.

The most obvious answer seems to be that it isn't a case of theft, it's a case of human or systems error.   If you've gone to the bother of cloning someone's card to get access to their account why *wouldn't* you empty it?  It'd be like breaking into the Tower of London, ignoring the crown jewels but stealing a postcard from the gift shop.

BooJewels

I don't do counter transactions very often - especially now they've shut all the local branches down - but I don't think I've ever been asked for separate ID - putting the card into the terminal with your PIN was the security check.  I have a NW account, but never been into a branch, so don't know their procedure. If their limit was £100 ‐ why not take £98, not £77.

If the person withdrawing didn't have the PIN because it was a dodgy card - then just buying stuff with contactless would be far less risky to them - they could have got a decent haul in a short period of time.  I'm still erring towards a glitch in the Matrix above fraud.

ETA: My father was almost victim to a much larger fraud with a cloned card - but the bank stopped it because they could see he'd just done a counter transaction in his own branch.  When the fraud department rang the branch, they were able to confirm that it was definitely him, as they knew him by sight.  So trying a counter transaction is a big risk - the potential fraudster can't know the genuine card holder doesn't do pilates with the clerk, or some such.

Mrcsmrs

DE_612183 said:

badmemory said:

What seems really strange to me is that they could have gone into a dozen small shops & made a load of card purchases with no issues at all so why didn't they.  I mean why go into a bank with security cameras when you could go into a long series of small shops without any cameras & even get cash back & if asked for a pin number well oh dear it is so long since I used it I can't remember.  A friend of mine had his stolen out of his office & it was used lots of times in the next hour & then never used again.

This is what I thought, which is why I think there is a genuine reason for this rather than fraud / theft.

Completely agree, it doesn’t make any sense, except what are the chances that this would happen in a town I lived in three years ago? That bit makes absolutely no sense. The account wasn’t opened there, I can only remember going into the branch once in the 15 years I lived there and that was because they’d suddenly managed to transpose the digits in my date of birth and I had to prove them with my passport. The account was opened online when I lived in a completely different area and county. That it’s this town is the strangest thing about a really strange thing to happen. 

Nationwide initially saying I’d have the money back in 48 hours and should keep checking my app, just to change their minds and say it takes much longer and they’ll let me know their decision as if there’s no guarantee I’ll get my money back? When I’ve checked and I’m not protected against fraud of someone taking it out in the branch. It’s not covered in the list of what they’ll refund. So where does that leave me? 

DE_612183

Mrcsmrs said:

DE_612183 said:

badmemory said:

What seems really strange to me is that they could have gone into a dozen small shops & made a load of card purchases with no issues at all so why didn't they.  I mean why go into a bank with security cameras when you could go into a long series of small shops without any cameras & even get cash back & if asked for a pin number well oh dear it is so long since I used it I can't remember.  A friend of mine had his stolen out of his office & it was used lots of times in the next hour & then never used again.

This is what I thought, which is why I think there is a genuine reason for this rather than fraud / theft.

Completely agree, it doesn’t make any sense, except what are the chances that this would happen in a town I lived in three years ago? That bit makes absolutely no sense. The account wasn’t opened there, I can only remember going into the branch once in the 15 years I lived there and that was because they’d suddenly managed to transpose the digits in my date of birth and I had to prove them with my passport. The account was opened online when I lived in a completely different area and county. That it’s this town is the strangest thing about a really strange thing to happen. 

Nationwide initially saying I’d have the money back in 48 hours and should keep checking my app, just to change their minds and say it takes much longer and they’ll let me know their decision as if there’s no guarantee I’ll get my money back? When I’ve checked and I’m not protected against fraud of someone taking it out in the branch. It’s not covered in the list of what they’ll refund. So where does that leave me? 

It leaves you waiting for their investigation & response.

If they don't give you the money back - then you contact the police.

Kim_13

I’d be more inclined to think it’s a miskey - what are the chances of a cloned card being so good that the bank’s own systems accept it, and their staff don’t see anything visibly wrong with the card? As others have said, £77 would be a very odd amount for a fraudster to take and high risk too. More likely a Nationwide error when another customer was short of money and therefore rather than withdrawing £70 from a machine, withdrawing £80 and going overdrawn at c.40%, decided to go in the branch for £77.

Nationwide sort codes have never been linked to branches - certain ranges were issued by date/type of account opened. I suspect it is the coincidence that OP used to live there meaning that it moved from 48 hours to 10 days. I would get in touch asking them not to delete the CCTV - it proves you are innocent rather than them being able to take too long, delete it and say they can’t be sure that it wasn’t you. If they don’t do as requested and are negligent, the ombudsman would be very interested and likely to order Nationwide to refund the money in due course. 

Very soon after the 10 days are up, you will know who your MP is and will be able to ask them to assist in getting Nationwide to return your money. That a provider has to refund the money when you do a chargeback and re-debit if the claim is later found to be unfounded, but doesn’t have to do the same in the case of an unauthorised cash withdrawal seems like a shortcoming that should be addressed.

I would expect a goodwill gesture from Nationwide when resolved. If they are not forthcoming with it, or miss the 10 days then I would complain, adding in that they have already moved the timescale once.

If it is a cloned card, it must have come from a cash machine or chip and pin purchase and not ApplePay.

Mrcsmrs

DE_612183 said:

Mrcsmrs said:

DE_612183 said:

badmemory said:

What seems really strange to me is that they could have gone into a dozen small shops & made a load of card purchases with no issues at all so why didn't they.  I mean why go into a bank with security cameras when you could go into a long series of small shops without any cameras & even get cash back & if asked for a pin number well oh dear it is so long since I used it I can't remember.  A friend of mine had his stolen out of his office & it was used lots of times in the next hour & then never used again.

This is what I thought, which is why I think there is a genuine reason for this rather than fraud / theft.

Completely agree, it doesn’t make any sense, except what are the chances that this would happen in a town I lived in three years ago? That bit makes absolutely no sense. The account wasn’t opened there, I can only remember going into the branch once in the 15 years I lived there and that was because they’d suddenly managed to transpose the digits in my date of birth and I had to prove them with my passport. The account was opened online when I lived in a completely different area and county. That it’s this town is the strangest thing about a really strange thing to happen. 

Nationwide initially saying I’d have the money back in 48 hours and should keep checking my app, just to change their minds and say it takes much longer and they’ll let me know their decision as if there’s no guarantee I’ll get my money back? When I’ve checked and I’m not protected against fraud of someone taking it out in the branch. It’s not covered in the list of what they’ll refund. So where does that leave me? 

It leaves you waiting for their investigation & response.

If they don't give you the money back - then you contact the police.

I’m not good at waiting. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the sort to be rude or belligerent and I get that they have jobs to do. I wouldn’t ever be abusive to individual staff but the process isn’t helping. 

Plus I honestly can’t see the police doing anything about such a big organisation not refunding me £77. I hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be anyone’s priority, except mine! 

Mrcsmrs

Kim_13 said:

I’d be more inclined to think it’s a miskey - what are the chances of a cloned card being so good that the bank’s own systems accept it, and their staff don’t see anything visibly wrong with the card? As others have said, £77 would be a very odd amount for a fraudster to take and high risk too. More likely a Nationwide error when another customer was short of money and therefore rather than withdrawing £70 from a machine, withdrawing £80 and going overdrawn at c.40%, decided to go in the branch for £77.

Nationwide sort codes have never been linked to branches - certain ranges were issued by date/type of account opened. I suspect it is the coincidence that OP used to live there meaning that it moved from 48 hours to 10 days. I would get in touch asking them not to delete the CCTV - it proves you are innocent rather than them being able to take too long, delete it and say they can’t be sure that it wasn’t you. If they don’t do as requested and are negligent, the ombudsman would be very interested and likely to order Nationwide to refund the money in due course. 

Very soon after the 10 days are up, you will know who your MP is and will be able to ask them to assist in getting Nationwide to return your money. That a provider has to refund the money when you do a chargeback and re-debit if the claim is later found to be unfounded, but doesn’t have to do the same in the case of an unauthorised cash withdrawal seems like a shortcoming that should be addressed.

I would expect a goodwill gesture from Nationwide when resolved. If they are not forthcoming with it, or miss the 10 days then I would complain, adding in that they have already moved the timescale once.

If it is a cloned card, it must have come from a cash machine or chip and pin purchase and not ApplePay.

Thank you for this. I have just called the branch and been told that they keep their cctv coverage for 30 days and that HQ have access to it and can save it separately so that should cover the ten working days they’re saying they need. The chap I spoke to has also noted that I asked for it to be saved on the incident so they can see I want it kept available. I’m not sure how else I can go about proving I wasn’t there when I didn’t leave my home at all on the day in question. 

I find it really hard to believe that a coincidence like that is genuinely just a coincidence. Of all the branches in the country it’s that one? I suppose it had to be somewhere but that is just too weird. 

friolento

Mrcsmrs said:

DE_612183 said:

Mrcsmrs said:

DE_612183 said:

badmemory said:

What seems really strange to me is that they could have gone into a dozen small shops & made a load of card purchases with no issues at all so why didn't they.  I mean why go into a bank with security cameras when you could go into a long series of small shops without any cameras & even get cash back & if asked for a pin number well oh dear it is so long since I used it I can't remember.  A friend of mine had his stolen out of his office & it was used lots of times in the next hour & then never used again.

This is what I thought, which is why I think there is a genuine reason for this rather than fraud / theft.

Completely agree, it doesn’t make any sense, except what are the chances that this would happen in a town I lived in three years ago? That bit makes absolutely no sense. The account wasn’t opened there, I can only remember going into the branch once in the 15 years I lived there and that was because they’d suddenly managed to transpose the digits in my date of birth and I had to prove them with my passport. The account was opened online when I lived in a completely different area and county. That it’s this town is the strangest thing about a really strange thing to happen. 

Nationwide initially saying I’d have the money back in 48 hours and should keep checking my app, just to change their minds and say it takes much longer and they’ll let me know their decision as if there’s no guarantee I’ll get my money back? When I’ve checked and I’m not protected against fraud of someone taking it out in the branch. It’s not covered in the list of what they’ll refund. So where does that leave me? 

It leaves you waiting for their investigation & response.

If they don't give you the money back - then you contact the police.

I’m not good at waiting. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the sort to be rude or belligerent and I get that they have jobs to do. I wouldn’t ever be abusive to individual staff but the process isn’t helping. 

Plus I honestly can’t see the police doing anything about such a big organisation not refunding me £77. I hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be anyone’s priority, except mine! 

Patience is a virtue. It will be resolved in time, with or without you having to escalate the matter to the FOS. It’s not as if you’ll need to eat cardboard because of the missing £77, and you are likely to get a nice compensation which will be massively more than the interest you could make in a year from £77. 

I agree that the Police would do nothing about this minor ‘crime’, and I hope you won’t need to waste your MP’s time over it as just about all MPs have way more pressing matters to attend to (after they return from their impending summer recess 😂).

You could consider going to your local newspaper if you have one, or to the Personal Finance agony aunts/uncles at iNews, Telegraph, Daily Mail, Guardian etc. They often like to pick up consumer issues as it gives them something to fill their columns.

DE_612183

Mrcsmrs said:

DE_612183 said:

Mrcsmrs said:

DE_612183 said:

badmemory said:

What seems really strange to me is that they could have gone into a dozen small shops & made a load of card purchases with no issues at all so why didn't they.  I mean why go into a bank with security cameras when you could go into a long series of small shops without any cameras & even get cash back & if asked for a pin number well oh dear it is so long since I used it I can't remember.  A friend of mine had his stolen out of his office & it was used lots of times in the next hour & then never used again.

This is what I thought, which is why I think there is a genuine reason for this rather than fraud / theft.

Completely agree, it doesn’t make any sense, except what are the chances that this would happen in a town I lived in three years ago? That bit makes absolutely no sense. The account wasn’t opened there, I can only remember going into the branch once in the 15 years I lived there and that was because they’d suddenly managed to transpose the digits in my date of birth and I had to prove them with my passport. The account was opened online when I lived in a completely different area and county. That it’s this town is the strangest thing about a really strange thing to happen. 

Nationwide initially saying I’d have the money back in 48 hours and should keep checking my app, just to change their minds and say it takes much longer and they’ll let me know their decision as if there’s no guarantee I’ll get my money back? When I’ve checked and I’m not protected against fraud of someone taking it out in the branch. It’s not covered in the list of what they’ll refund. So where does that leave me? 

It leaves you waiting for their investigation & response.

If they don't give you the money back - then you contact the police.

I’m not good at waiting. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the sort to be rude or belligerent and I get that they have jobs to do. I wouldn’t ever be abusive to individual staff but the process isn’t helping. 

Plus I honestly can’t see the police doing anything about such a big organisation not refunding me £77. I hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be anyone’s priority, except mine! 

Of course for one transaction of £77 the police wouldn't be interested - but if there is a pattern then they would be - there was a case in Wales recently of a family going into restaurants and doing runners - each time it was a bill for £100 or so - it was only when cases got reported to the police that they worked out the scam and found out who were responsible - they actually went to prison for it.


If someone can do maybe 4/5 of these a day it's a good earner

MeteredOut

OP, just to set expectations, the most likely outcome here is that you will get your £77 back but you will NOT be told what actually happened. Banks just don't share that information, even to the customers involved.

If this £77 missing from your account is causing you hardship, you should raise a complaint with the bank and they often have facilities in place to support customers in the rare situation you find yourself in.

Otherwise, its just best to wait on the outcome.