Does a freehold Invalidate the terms of a leashold?

eddddy

Yes - either of those sounds fine.

One small point, Service Charge percentages would normally be based on size of flat or floor area of flat - rather than value of flat

So it might be better to say "The floor area of Flats 15 and 17 are 2 and a half times greater then mine...."

smoothieee

eddddy said:

Yes - either of those sounds fine.

One small point, Service Charge percentages would normally be based on size of flat or floor area of flat - rather than value of flat

So it might be better to say "The floor area of Flats 15 and 17 are 2 and a half times greater then mine...."

I shared my email last-night and this was their response:

''As you will see from his email, he has decided his own contribution to these major works.

Please can everyone transfer £46.22 to the bank account so that we can pay the contractors on time.

The basis for his decision is unfounded, specifically the fact that no one has a lease anymore effective from the date we became freeholders, so historic precedents are irrelevant and do not apply, and we don’t have a landlord so the Landlord and Tenancy act does not apply. 

This was the message that they shared on the WhatsApp group.
He said that the basis of my decision is unfounded and no one has a lease anymore since we became freeholders?

I'm i right in thinking that this particular person has a poor understanding of whats happening?

propertyrental

smoothieee said:

eddddy said:

Yes - either of those sounds fine.

One small point, Service Charge percentages would normally be based on size of flat or floor area of flat - rather than value of flat

So it might be better to say "The floor area of Flats 15 and 17 are 2 and a half times greater then mine...."

I shared my email last-night and this was their response:

''As you will see from his email, he has decided his own contribution to these major works.

Please can everyone transfer £46.22 to the bank account so that we can pay the contractors on time.

The basis for his decision is unfounded, specifically the fact that no one has a lease anymore effective from the date we became freeholders, so historic precedents are irrelevant and do not apply, and we don’t have a landlord so the Landlord and Tenancy act does not apply. 

This was the message that they shared on the WhatsApp group.
He said that the basis of my decision is unfounded and no one has a lease anymore since we became freeholders?

I'm i right in thinking that this particular person has a poor understanding of whats happening?

Yes. Of course you still have leases. All that's changed is ownership of the freehold.

I would stop using whatsApp and start wrtiing formally to the Director(s) of the company owning the freehold.

eddddy

smoothieee said:

eddddy said:

Yes - either of those sounds fine.

One small point, Service Charge percentages would normally be based on size of flat or floor area of flat - rather than value of flat

So it might be better to say "The floor area of Flats 15 and 17 are 2 and a half times greater then mine...."

I shared my email last-night and this was their response:

''As you will see from his email, he has decided his own contribution to these major works.

Please can everyone transfer £46.22 to the bank account so that we can pay the contractors on time.

The basis for his decision is unfounded, specifically the fact that no one has a lease anymore effective from the date we became freeholders, so historic precedents are irrelevant and do not apply, and we don’t have a landlord so the Landlord and Tenancy act does not apply. 

This was the message that they shared on the WhatsApp group.
He said that the basis of my decision is unfounded and no one has a lease anymore since we became freeholders?

I'm i right in thinking that this particular person has a poor understanding of whats happening?

Yes of course you all have leases.

It's scary to think that somebody with such little understanding of the world is is acting on behalf of the landlords (freeholders) and trying to manage 2 blocks of flats.

Hopefully, some of the other leaseholders will realise what a fool that person is when they read that message.

smoothieee

propertyrental said:

smoothieee said:

eddddy said:

Yes - either of those sounds fine.

One small point, Service Charge percentages would normally be based on size of flat or floor area of flat - rather than value of flat

So it might be better to say "The floor area of Flats 15 and 17 are 2 and a half times greater then mine...."

I shared my email last-night and this was their response:

''As you will see from his email, he has decided his own contribution to these major works.

Please can everyone transfer £46.22 to the bank account so that we can pay the contractors on time.

The basis for his decision is unfounded, specifically the fact that no one has a lease anymore effective from the date we became freeholders, so historic precedents are irrelevant and do not apply, and we don’t have a landlord so the Landlord and Tenancy act does not apply. 

This was the message that they shared on the WhatsApp group.
He said that the basis of my decision is unfounded and no one has a lease anymore since we became freeholders?

I'm i right in thinking that this particular person has a poor understanding of whats happening?

Yes. Of course you still have leases. All that's changed is ownership of the freehold.

I would stop using whatsApp and start wrtiing formally to the Director(s) of the company owning the freehold.

I wrote a formal email to each an everyone, I simply read the message from their group, no comment from me.

Anyway, should someone say that :

1) No one has a lease anymore effective from the date we became freeholders, so historic precedents are irrelevant and do not apply and that :
2) We don’t have a landlord so the Landlord and Tenancy act does not apply.

Is the above True or False? does this not means am at the mercy of my co freeholder and they can do as they please, just my the subject of my thread, does a freehold Invalidate the terms of a leashold?  

Their comment about the irrelevance of my lease, is it T/F?

eddddy

'Freeholder' is a kind informal term - the legal terms is 'Landlord' or 'Lessor'

'Leaseholder' is a kind of informal term - the legal term is 'Tenant' or 'Lessee"


You haven't fully explained the set-up, but I'm guessing it could be like this:

• There are 10 leasehold flats
• There is one freehold building - which contains the 10 leasehold flats

And...

• Each flat is owned by a leaseholder - so there are 10 leaseholders (or tenants)
• The freehold building is owned by a company - the company has 10 shareholders

So...

• You own a leasehold flat
• You also own a share in the company that owns the freehold

So the company that owns the freehold is the Landlord, and you are 1 of 10 tenants, and...

• Both the landlord and the tenants are bound by the Landlord and Tenant Act
• Both the landlord and the tenant are bound by their  individual leases

- but it's "Landlord and Tenant act" not "Landlord and Tenancy act"


(But as the flats were originally 2 houses, it's also possible that there are two freehold buildings, each containing 5 leasehold flats.)

smoothieee

eddddy said:

smoothieee said:

eddddy said:

Yes - either of those sounds fine.

One small point, Service Charge percentages would normally be based on size of flat or floor area of flat - rather than value of flat

So it might be better to say "The floor area of Flats 15 and 17 are 2 and a half times greater then mine...."

I shared my email last-night and this was their response:

''As you will see from his email, he has decided his own contribution to these major works.

Please can everyone transfer £46.22 to the bank account so that we can pay the contractors on time.

The basis for his decision is unfounded, specifically the fact that no one has a lease anymore effective from the date we became freeholders, so historic precedents are irrelevant and do not apply, and we don’t have a landlord so the Landlord and Tenancy act does not apply. 

This was the message that they shared on the WhatsApp group.
He said that the basis of my decision is unfounded and no one has a lease anymore since we became freeholders?

I'm i right in thinking that this particular person has a poor understanding of whats happening?

Yes of course you all have leases.

It's scary to think that somebody with such little understanding of the world is is acting on behalf of the landlords (freeholders) and trying to manage 2 blocks of flats.

Hopefully, some of the other leaseholders will realise what a fool that person is when they read that message.

Thank you, you most certainly gave me a voice and as you can imagine this particular guy is not happy, like you predicted, he's now asking the others to contribute towards the shortfall. he's like the un-appointed spokesperson and also a freeholder like the rest of them. 

Is there something that I should be gathering in place, like proof of historical evidence.
for example the invoices that I have been billed the entire time have lived there showing the apportionment for each and every flat within the building?

I was also lucky to have an appointment with the leasehold advisory services, they only allowed a short time on the phone and in summary they said, if things heads in the direction of a hearing, that I should have a:

1) Surveyors report and also
2) An input from to a property ligation solicitor

Anything else that I should be aware of and based on his response, is there something that other freeholder should be aware of and I can send another letter individually to each of my neighbours (also the freeholders). Thanks!

eddddy

You should make sure you keep copies of emails and letters - and take screenshots (or downloads) of the Whatsapp messages.

In terms of an email to others, I might go with something like...

"I wonder what people's thoughts are about hiring a management company to manage the building.

Obviously, that will be an added cost for each of us, but I think it's important that the building is managed by people with a good understanding of leases and the law - for example, the Landlord and Tenant Act. And as we're all contributing thousands of pounds to repair projects, it would be reassuring to have well managed finances, proper legal consultations, etc."


It's a bit passive-aggressive, but it might give you a feel for whether others agree with you.

smoothieee

eddddy said:

'Freeholder' is a kind informal term - the legal terms is 'Landlord' or 'Lessor'

'Leaseholder' is a kind of informal term - the legal term is 'Tenant' or 'Lessee"


You haven't fully explained the set-up, but I'm guessing it could be like this:

• There are 10 leasehold flats
• There is one freehold building - which contains the 10 leasehold flats

And...

• Each flat is owned by a leaseholder - so there are 10 leaseholders (or tenants)
• The freehold building is owned by a company - the company has 10 shareholders

So...

• You own a leasehold flat
• You also own a share in the company that owns the freehold

So the company that owns the freehold is the Landlord, and you are 1 of 10 tenants, and...

• Both the landlord and the tenants are bound by the Landlord and Tenant Act
• Both the landlord and the tenant are bound by their  individual leases

- but it's "Landlord and Tenant act" not "Landlord and Tenancy act"


(But as the flats were originally 2 houses, it's also possible that there are two freehold buildings, each containing 5 leasehold flats.)

Yes, you are right.

• There are 10 leasehold flats
• There is one freehold building - which contains the 10 leasehold flats
• Each leaseholder is a owner of their flat and likewise a shareholder in the company (10 shareholders)

and before all of this, we all use to be lease holders and we ''Paid Land rent'' to the landlord before we bought the freehold in Nov last year. 

I was also lucky to have an appointment with the leasehold advisory services, in summary they said, if things heads in the direction of a hearing, that I should have a:

1) Surveyors report and also
2) An input from to a property ligation solicitor

Any other documents that I should be aware of and based on his response, is there something that other freeholder (i.e my neighbours) should be aware of and I can send another letter individually to each of them, sort of a counter response.

eddddy

smoothieee said:

and before all of this, we all use to be lease holders and we ''Paid Land rent'' to the landlord before we bought the freehold in Nov last year. 

I think you mean ground rent.

You (the leaseholders) are probably still liable to pay ground rent to the freehold company (unless you had lease variations to remove the ground rent).

But the freehold company probably doesn't bother asking for the ground rent.