Sold Campervan buyer wants money back

photome

Okell said:

mandy1955 said:

FOUND a copy of my original sale post:

Mazda Bongo 2.5 diesel. P502JMS located in Cheshire. km120.513 so roughly 75,000miles...

Has your buyer queried the mileage?  There appears to be a discrepancy on the MOT history.  Is it km or miles...?

Regardless - as I said earlier - you should ignore them.

Before they can issue a court claim against you they must send you a Letter Before Claim (aka Letter Before Action).  You don't need to take any notice of them until you receive one - and even if you do it doesn't mean they will actually sue you.  It's often just sent as additional intimidation.

You only need to worry when you receive an actual claim issued by the court.  Then you need to take action and put a defence together.

Looks like it has been recorded in miles ( mostly) when it should have been km, don’t see that as a problem

buyer is trying it on, but I understand why the OP is stressed

maxmycardagain

My buyer also asked where the service history was, he literally had 30 A4 sheets of invoices but wanted a stamped book

Goudy

I know our law can be an !!!!!! sometimes, but you sold and they bought a 28 year old vehicle.

You described the vehicle as best and honestly as you can.
You are not a motoring expert or professional mechanic, so your description was a unqualified personal opinion based on your limited time as owner (you owned it 3 years out of 28), nothing more.

They sent someone around to inspect it before they purchased it and you freely let them do that.
If that person did a good job or not isn't down to you.
If they were a professional mechanic or not, you wasn't to know.
If they sent someone who didn't know is elbow from their you know what, that's not your fault either.
If they did, that's there problem, if the didn't, again that's their problem.

This was their time to pick up on any faults, which you can honestly say they actually did as they negotiated on the listed price even though they never came to inspect the vehicle themselves.
You did this on their insistence, why else would you take money of a reasonably asking price?
This indicates they obviously felt they found something about the vehicle that needed rectifying to bring this 28 year old vehicle up to the value you had originally listed and you both agreed this at a time before purchase.

Above all it was a sale of a used vehicle without a warranty.
The very definition of that would be of a vehicle that wasn't in new condition and it would be expected some items might need repair or replacing in the near future, but at the time of sale is was perfectly roadworthy and safe to use on the public roads.

What the buyers are quibbling about is actually only a service item and the probability that any vehicle, new or used  needing servicing at some point in it's future is 100%. 
That fact is completely out of your hands.

Civil law is all about probabilities.
Do used vehicles have faults? A high probability. 
Do used vehicles need servicing? A high probability.
Have you described it as accurately as you could based on your personal opinion? A high probability.
Did they inspect it themselves? Certainty not.
Did they send someone to inspect it who may or may not be qualified? A certainty.
Was the vehicle roadworthy? With a recent MOT, that's probable but they aren't even arguing that fact.

To "win" they have to swing a load of probabilities in their favour, some of which have been argued in law for years and are almost taken for granted by the courts, like the probable condition of a 28 year old van.

PixelPound

Okell said:

mandy1955 said:

FOUND a copy of my original sale post:

Mazda Bongo 2.5 diesel. P502JMS located in Cheshire. km120.513 so roughly 75,000miles...

Has your buyer queried the mileage?  There appears to be a discrepancy on the MOT history.  Is it km or miles...?

Regardless - as I said earlier - you should ignore them.

Before they can issue a court claim against you they must send you a Letter Before Claim (aka Letter Before Action).  You don't need to take any notice of them until you receive one - and even if you do it doesn't mean they will actually sue you.  It's often just sent as additional intimidation.

You only need to worry when you receive an actual claim issued by the court.  Then you need to take action and put a defence together.

No they don't. Businesses need to do that but not individuals. Threat of court action is often empty, as they hope you will buckle. Even if they do, and it's relatively easy, fill in a form and pay a fee, I wouldn't worry. It looks like you have a lot of independent witnesses able to say the vehicle was in a condition accurate to the description.

Most likely it will get thrown out before it gets to Court if your legal advisor does the initial response right. Courts do not like having their time wasted.

Okell

nic_c said:

Okell said:

mandy1955 said:

FOUND a copy of my original sale post:

Mazda Bongo 2.5 diesel. P502JMS located in Cheshire. km120.513 so roughly 75,000miles...

Has your buyer queried the mileage?  There appears to be a discrepancy on the MOT history.  Is it km or miles...?

Regardless - as I said earlier - you should ignore them.

Before they can issue a court claim against you they must send you a Letter Before Claim (aka Letter Before Action).  You don't need to take any notice of them until you receive one - and even if you do it doesn't mean they will actually sue you.  It's often just sent as additional intimidation.

You only need to worry when you receive an actual claim issued by the court.  Then you need to take action and put a defence together.

No they don't. Businesses need to do that but not individuals. Threat of court action is often empty, as they hope you will buckle. Even if they do, and it's relatively easy, fill in a form and pay a fee, I wouldn't worry. It looks like you have a lot of independent witnesses able to say the vehicle was in a condition accurate to the description.

Most likely it will get thrown out before it gets to Court if your legal advisor does the initial response right. Courts do not like having their time wasted.

I'm not the OP.

mandy1955

Hi, an update.    I received a letter as I was told by the seller that I would, it said recorded delivery on it, however my postman put it through the letterbox while I was out.   The letter was not from a solicitor or any legal body, but the seller himself.   He basically must have written it in a hurry as he was kind of ranting about his wife's illness and how I'm making her worse etc.   He said he just wants me to be reasonable and give him £325 to replace the cam belt.  He previously told me he'd been quoted £800.   So, as I didn't sign for any letter I've just put it in a cupboard to see what happens next.
He also joined one of the Mazda Bongo groups I'm still in (I have friends in the groups and we have meets) he wrote he's just bought a Bongo off me, naming me obviously and saying its a lovely van and fun to drive but I told lies about the cam belt etc.....so I screen shotted the post.
The letter was received about 10 days ago. 

Mildly_Miffed

"anything its needed it's had"
"kept on top of all maintenance"

While I agree that the buyer can go and boil their head, I'd respectfully suggest that those two statements from the ad do not tally with the cambelt being due for replacement.

born_again

mandy1955 said:

Hi, an update.    I received a letter as I was told by the seller that I would, it said recorded delivery on it, however my postman put it through the letterbox while I was out.   The letter was not from a solicitor or any legal body, but the seller himself.   He basically must have written it in a hurry as he was kind of ranting about his wife's illness and how I'm making her worse etc.   He said he just wants me to be reasonable and give him £325 to replace the cam belt.  He previously told me he'd been quoted £800.   So, as I didn't sign for any letter I've just put it in a cupboard to see what happens next.
He also joined one of the Mazda Bongo groups I'm still in (I have friends in the groups and we have meets) he wrote he's just bought a Bongo off me, naming me obviously and saying its a lovely van and fun to drive but I told lies about the cam belt etc.....so I screen shotted the post.
The letter was received about 10 days ago. 

Make sure the mods on there get your details removed & warn the user over their actions.

Herzlos

When was the cambelt actually due? If it's overdue then I'm leaning towards it being misrepresented but if it's not due to then you did keep on top of maintenance.  Unless OP made it clear that when saying the cam belt was done, it was done years ago by a previous owner (which is unlikely to be what the buyer was asking but could have been clearer).

Mildly_Miffed

Specialist recommendation is 4yr/40k miles, and the pump is cambelt-driven.
http://www.bongomad.co.uk/mechanics/cam-belt-water-pump

Mazda recommendation is 60k, can't easily find a time rec - but let's assume 5-6yrs.

The OP's had it for three years. There's a receipt for a water pump from before his ownership - when? The assumption has to be that's when the belt was last done.

But, as ever, if you buy something older and there's no proof of when the belt was last done... DO IT ASAP.