Franke stainless steel sinks

joesoap1264

RefluentBeans said:

Bought through trade account, so no consumer rights with Franke’s. The warranty will be written in a way to favour them - that’s just how these things are written as they are additional to your rights under the CRA (or in your case, SOGA as CRA can’t apply to trade transactions). 

When you bought the sink, how did you pay? Did you tell an installer this is the sink I want, and then they ordered it for you and fitted it? Did you have a mate with a trade account who only ordered the sink?

If the person who you purchased from did a supply and fitting; then you should go to them and they should cover both the supply and fitting of this under the consumer rights act. You are entitled to a replacement or repair (or refund) but it’s their choice which. A refund may take into account the amount of use, and normally this is calculated as a straight line depreciation to the limitations placed on the act (6 years) - so the maximum refund I’d be looking at would be 30-40% realistically. On top of that, they are legally entitled to ask for proof it’s a manufacturing defect/fitting error rather than corrosion from not following cleaning maintenance. This is at your cost, but claimable back if the report supports you. 

If you purchased the sink and fitted it separately, then you’ll only be entitled to a replacement/repair/refund (as above) but nothing for fitting, as this is an entirely separate contract. Additionally they can ask for a report just like above.  

Other warranties (from whoever supplied the product to you or fitted them) may be more generous, or they may have plenty of ‘get out’ clauses. Whilst they can’t legally restrict your rights, they can make it hard to claim under the warranty. It’s why the typical advice is warranties are nice to have and can make things easier to claim but the rights you have legal basis. 

If you answer on how you paid/got it fitted then I think you’ll be able to get more specific advice. 

Hi.I went to magnet, chose a complete new kitchen plus appliances plus sink.

I had already chosen a fitter who did my friends to instal the whole of the cabinets.
he project managed the lot. Did not get invloved at all in the choice or purchase.
He chose the plumbers, electricians, plasterer, which I paid individually cash.
I paid the joiner/ installer directly some cash, some electronically.
he had no contact with Magnet at all .
Because he had an account at Magnet, the sales person who knew him recommended I have it through his account, which I did, I cannot recall why, but probably because of discounts ?
I always choose workmen through recommendations if I can.
 
I paid Magnet direct using my Debit card, the kitchen was sent direct to my house.
It was fitted to my satisfaction.

The ombudsman said they could help, after I got no joy with Franke, but when they contacted Magnet and found I had it through the installers a/ c, they said they could not help, and supplied CAB number to contact.
I contacted Magnet first, then Franke, the ombudsman, and finally Magnet who said they would refer it to their warrantee department, 21 day turn around.
this was last week.
I await to be contacted by them.
I never looked at warrantees for anything,when purchasing  ,as in my experience, the devil is in the small print.
it’s when something goes wrong, that you find out how good/ bad they are.
I am a cynical person, but only through experience.
I thought Magnet would have referred me to their warrantee dept first, but they did nothing, except supply a copy of my proof of purchase to Franke direct.
why I should have accepted Frankie’s offer of a new one at a reasonable price, to me , no installation fees, still seems wrong.
I have not caused the problems they say.
their decision was/ is based on two photos, no visit, two e mails, hence the ombudsman.
my word against theirs
Thanks for reply RB, much appreciated.
to me it looks like sticking with the one I ‘ve got until such times as it gets so bad, I have to replace it, at my expense.
but still exploring all avenues.

Aylesbury_Duck

A couple of things jump out.  Firstly, you paid Magnet directly, but did so through your fitter's account.  Others may have a different view, but I think that does break the consumer rights chain because you're not the consumer in this case.

Secondly, you're only one week into a three week window that Magnet have described for dealing with your warranty claim, so some patience is called for.  You may find they come up with a good offer.  It might turn out that you don't have a warranty because of the account situation.  And it may turn out that their warranty provides what you've already been offered and have rejected: a replacement sink only.  As previously explained, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as they adhere to their warranty terms, if you have a warranty, of course.

If you keep things civil and don't go off on one, they (Magnet) might make a goodwill/go-away gesture, so be careful how you respond to them if their offer is disappointing.

RefluentBeans

I honestly dont know if you can claim consumer rights through Magnet. It’s complicated because retailers can’t just say the act doesn’t apply because of <insert reason> but business to business sales are excluded. You bought through a trade account, and so that is arguably a B2B contract, outside the scope of the CRA (but still inside the scope of SOGA - but this act is far less protective). But they (Magnet) knew you were a consumer, and they seemed to suggest to put it onto a trade account (if you told them to do this - this advice may be weaker, so it’s important to remember accurately who’s suggestion it was) then I think that could be seen as a way to side step the CRA.

It’s up to you what you do - my advice would be to either accept the discounted sink (assuming you haven’t actually got to send the faulty one back?) - then you can choose when to do the replacement. Or ignore the manufacturer and speak with magnet. Ignore the warranties (especially if you haven’t read them…) and go for the Consumer Rights angle. If you don’t get the resolve you want, then I would say to complain to their CEO (via email - often gets sent to a senior team in the customer service who can go off script) or send a Letter Before Action. 

Like others have said, for the claim to be successful, you will likely need an expert to be able to determine what type of corrosion it is and whether it’s feasible you likely did or likely didn’t cause it. I’m not saying you did (or didn’t) but an assertion may not be enough. 

In any case, my advice would be to read the warranties before you buy a product - boring documents for sure. But if you want to rely on them in the future, it’s good to know if they’re worth the paper they’re written on or not. Additionally, it’s better to get the fitter to pay for materials normally as then you have added protection if anything goes wrong. Because no matter how this plays out, I don’t think you’re getting fitting included, I’m afraid. The warranties almost certainly will explicitly exclude if, and there’s nothing in the consumer rights act (or SOGA I believe) to allow for fitting of a product if it wasn’t in the original contract. 

eskbanker

joesoap1264 said:

born_again said:

If you think it is a manufacturing fault. Then you need to get a 3rd party report on the condition. If it backs up your thoughts. 
Then you are looking at going down the consumer rights route.

Third party reports cost money, and cannot be proved by two photos as Franke ‘s decision was based on.

joesoap1264 said:
their decision was/ is based on two photos, no visit, two e mails, hence the ombudsman.

my word against theirs

Just to be clear, in the context of consumer rights, the burden of proof rests with the customer after six months, i.e. the onus is on you to demonstrate a fault present at time of purchase, rather than the trader having to prove the opposite.

Alderbank

IvanOpinion said:

You need to look at the terms of the Franke warranty.
They have offered to replace the sink, that may be the limit of what their warranty offers. I am wondering if consumer rights might offer a better solution since, from your post it has a 50 year warranty, so it should only be about 10% through its lifespan.
See what Magnet come up with.

We have a Franke sink, slightly older than yours (4.5 years), no rust problems.

Indeed.

Franke's UK 50 yr warranty seems to have been removed from their website but their Australian 50 yr warranty is still viewable and is probably similar.
https://www.franke.com/au/en/home-solutions/support/warranty.html

Among other T&Cs of the warranty are:

If the Product fails to operate or is defective during the Warranty Period under normal operating conditions as a result of a defect in materials or workmanship, Franke will at its discretion either replace the Product...or repair... using new, used or refurbished replacement parts.

This Express Warranty does not cover and expressly excludes:

• corrosion from environmental conditions or chemical treatments;
• scratching, denting, rusting, spotting, discolouration or tampering with the Product;
• product removal or re-installation costs

joesoap1264

Thanks all, much appreciated.
excellent advice .
I was never given any warrantees for sink, or cabinets, etc, hence getting Magnet to supply invoice to Franke.I don’t even have a receipt, of payment ,except bank statement,it was sent via e mail, by sales person, but is now lost, due to new ipad .
I will see what Magnet say, then, post the answer, but somehow, I think it will come to nothing.
pessimist as I am .
my motto is ,one can get out of most things by paying .
even if one used bleach etc on a stainless steel sink, it should not cause rust on it in less than 4 years.

I used bleach etc on my old sink of 20+ years and never had any rust .
according to Franke, something not specified caused both problems ?

I only ever used soapy water, and wd40, still do.

user1977

Alderbank said:

IvanOpinion said:

You need to look at the terms of the Franke warranty.
They have offered to replace the sink, that may be the limit of what their warranty offers. I am wondering if consumer rights might offer a better solution since, from your post it has a 50 year warranty, so it should only be about 10% through its lifespan.
See what Magnet come up with.

We have a Franke sink, slightly older than yours (4.5 years), no rust problems.

Franke's UK 50 yr warranty seems to have been removed from their website but their Australian 50 yr warranty is still viewable and is probably similar.

That's a link to your C drive, which isn't going to work (and has slightly de-anonymised you!).

Alderbank

user1977 said:

Alderbank said:

IvanOpinion said:

You need to look at the terms of the Franke warranty.
They have offered to replace the sink, that may be the limit of what their warranty offers. I am wondering if consumer rights might offer a better solution since, from your post it has a 50 year warranty, so it should only be about 10% through its lifespan.
See what Magnet come up with.

We have a Franke sink, slightly older than yours (4.5 years), no rust problems.

Franke's UK 50 yr warranty seems to have been removed from their website but their Australian 50 yr warranty is still viewable and is probably similar.

That's a link to your C drive, which isn't going to work (and has slightly de-anonymised you!).

Oops! Thanks for spotting that for me! I think I've fixed it now.

Silvertabby

Are you sure it's a genuine Franke sink?  We had a Franke stainless steel sink fitted in our utility room over 18 years ago.  Used for heavy duty gardening/decorating/kitty litter tray cleaning, and I couldn't begin to guess at the amount of muck and bleach that's been swilled down it over the years.  Not a hint of rust.

joesoap1264

Silvertabby said:

Are you sure it's a genuine Franke sink?  We had a Franke stainless steel sink fitted in our utility room over 18 years ago.  Used for heavy duty gardening/decorating/kitty litter tray cleaning, and I couldn't begin to guess at the amount of muck and bleach that's been swilled down it over the years.  Not a hint of rust.

Cheers, I envy you.
Definitely a Franke, that’s why I am so annoyed about the condition after 4 years.
It’s hardly used, just two of us, oap’s.
just daily dishes,and  use a plastic bowl.
got dishwasher.
nothing caustic kept underneath.
any washing of dirty hands, clothes, etc is done in the utility room one we’ve had for 29 years,and still perfect, just a little shabby .
always used bleach etc in it .
it’s had a very hard life, and will see us out .
according to Franke, it really shouldn’t be used at all, because it seems normal usage is bad for it !
that’s why I refused their terms, to me, cheaper sinks are better.
it’s one of their costliest ones they do, £600 , and one cannot wash dishes in it.
£250, taps,also Franke, wonder when they will go ?
you don’t get what you pay for anymore it seems .
quality control is done by the customer .
can go on forever.