Franke stainless steel sinks

joesoap1264

Hi guys, bought new Franke stainless steel sink 50 months ago.
Now rusting in the bowl, and worse under the bowl.
franke say it’s down to fumes off whatever is under sink?
 They don’t mention what !
and inside bowl is due to same or other under plastic washing bowl.
won’t admit any 
liability.
offered to replace it at a reasonable cost, nowt towards fitting.
I refused.
It’s got a 50 year warrantee.not worth the paper written on.
ombudsman cannot help as I got it through fitters trade account.
magnet are now looking into it under their warrantee.
why didn’t they do this in the first place, no help at all.
Has anyone else had any corrosion trouble with Franke stainless sinks, or other makes?
I do not keep any corrosive substances under sink, because I’ve got a great grandchild in the house

All them items are kept under another non steel sink in utility room, with child locks on doors.Never ever have I kept bleach etc anywhere without a childproof top on, !!
.I know perhaps 99% of people keep bleach, etc under their sinks, I always did before G’s came along.
I had a stainless sink before this for 20+ years, no rust problems.
the underside is painted to prevent it.
Cheers.

PHK

The problem here is that your strongly held belief that no bleach or salt has come into contact with it seems at odds with the corrosion. 

Without seeing it it’s hard to say which of the types of corrosion has occurred or why. 

What do you think has caused it? Do you think they don’t put enough chrome in the steel when making it?

IvanOpinion

You need to look at the terms of the Franke warranty.
They have offered to replace the sink, that may be the limit of what their warranty offers. I am wondering if consumer rights might offer a better solution since, from your post it has a 50 year warranty, so it should only be about 10% through its lifespan.
See what Magnet come up with.

We have a Franke sink, slightly older than yours (4.5 years), no rust problems.

joesoap1264

PHK said:

The problem here is that your strongly held belief that no bleach or salt has come into contact with it seems at odds with the corrosion. 

Without seeing it it’s hard to say which of the types of corrosion has occurred or why. 

What do you think has caused it? Do you think they don’t put enough chrome in the steel when making it?

Hi PK, yes I do, why has it been discontinued.
it’s one of their most expensive ones .
I stated this, they really were not any help whatsoever.
just fobbed me off, hence my attempt with the ombudsman.
what’s the consumer rights ?

joesoap1264

If I accept another sink at reduced cost, ‘ I am accepting liability, which I am not doing.
I will have to pay refitting charges as well.
my opinion is the rust started under the sink and has come though to the inside, as the underside, which is painted, is terribly pitted, and far worse than inside of the bowl
that cannot happen in 4 years unless it,s a manufacturers fault

born_again

joesoap1264 said:

If I accept another sink at reduced cost, ‘ I am accepting liability, which I am not doing.
I will have to pay refitting charges as well.
my opinion is the rust started under the sink and has come though to the inside, as the underside, which is painted, is terribly pitted, and far worse than inside of the bowl
that cannot happen in 4 years unless it,s a manufacturers fault

If you think it is a manufacturing fault. Then you need to get a 3rd party report on the condition. If it backs up your thoughts. 
Then you are looking at going down the consumer rights route.

joesoap1264

born_again said:

joesoap1264 said:

If I accept another sink at reduced cost, ‘ I am accepting liability, which I am not doing.
I will have to pay refitting charges as well.
my opinion is the rust started under the sink and has come though to the inside, as the underside, which is painted, is terribly pitted, and far worse than inside of the bowl
that cannot happen in 4 years unless it,s a manufacturers fault

If you think it is a manufacturing fault. Then you need to get a 3rd party report on the condition. If it backs up your thoughts. 
Then you are looking at going down the consumer rights route.

Third party reports cost money, and cannot be proved by two photos as Franke ‘s decision was based on.
one needs a metallurgist.

I used to be a metal polisher in my younger days, had my own buisiness, so am familiar with steel.Not expert!
No one from Magnet or Franke have been to look at it.
cheers

Bradden

born_again said:

joesoap1264 said:

If I accept another sink at reduced cost, ‘ I am accepting liability, which I am not doing.
I will have to pay refitting charges as well.
my opinion is the rust started under the sink and has come though to the inside, as the underside, which is painted, is terribly pitted, and far worse than inside of the bowl
that cannot happen in 4 years unless it,s a manufacturers fault

If you think it is a manufacturing fault. Then you need to get a 3rd party report on the condition. If it backs up your thoughts. 
Then you are looking at going down the consumer rights route.

I believe they would also need to go through the fitter to enforce consumer rights as they made the purchase through a trade account.

RefluentBeans

Bought through trade account, so no consumer rights with Franke’s. The warranty will be written in a way to favour them - that’s just how these things are written as they are additional to your rights under the CRA (or in your case, SOGA as CRA can’t apply to trade transactions). 

When you bought the sink, how did you pay? Did you tell an installer this is the sink I want, and then they ordered it for you and fitted it? Did you have a mate with a trade account who only ordered the sink?

If the person who you purchased from did a supply and fitting; then you should go to them and they should cover both the supply and fitting of this under the consumer rights act. You are entitled to a replacement or repair (or refund) but it’s their choice which. A refund may take into account the amount of use, and normally this is calculated as a straight line depreciation to the limitations placed on the act (6 years) - so the maximum refund I’d be looking at would be 30-40% realistically. On top of that, they are legally entitled to ask for proof it’s a manufacturing defect/fitting error rather than corrosion from not following cleaning maintenance. This is at your cost, but claimable back if the report supports you. 

If you purchased the sink and fitted it separately, then you’ll only be entitled to a replacement/repair/refund (as above) but nothing for fitting, as this is an entirely separate contract. Additionally they can ask for a report just like above.  

Other warranties (from whoever supplied the product to you or fitted them) may be more generous, or they may have plenty of ‘get out’ clauses. Whilst they can’t legally restrict your rights, they can make it hard to claim under the warranty. It’s why the typical advice is warranties are nice to have and can make things easier to claim but the rights you have legal basis. 

If you answer on how you paid/got it fitted then I think you’ll be able to get more specific advice. 

Aylesbury_Duck

^^ I agree with RefluentBeans' advice.

To enforce your consumer rights, you may have to spend some money.  Depending upon the answers to RB's questions, you may find you were too hasty to reject the replacement sink.  It might have been the best outcome.

PHK

I agree, approach the fitter but get evidence. we dont seem to have anything other than strongly held belief and haven't ruled out problems with the installation such as damage caused by other metals.