Not a hospital car park

fineclaret

Just looking for a bit of feedback on the merits of my case:

A family member had suffered a medical emergency. The following day, still not admitted, we drove down and parked in an area accessed through staff carpark. Paid for parking, but the process was laborious - took  at least 10 mins. Later, with c45 paid mins to go, tried to extend parking but it would only give time from that moment, not extend the paid period. Family member finally moved to ward, after a huge wait. A significant wheel in the opposite direction to the car park. We went with them to see them settled, then 'rushed' back to car. Wife is not the quickest... 

The usual notices start, for a 20-minute overstay. 60 then 100 then 170. Over a £1 underpayment. The claim was timed from the moment of entry to exit, so no allowance for app-time: the clock starts ticking the moment you drive in, which isn't clear.  I appealed on grounds of mitigation: rejected. Appealed to hospital: not their car park - despite access being via staff car park, marked with NHS, this public parking is not. But obviously, parking was hardly our #1 priority in any case.

I haven't been back to check signage, so can't comment on its adequacy, beyond the misleading entry via a definite NHS space.

Gr1pr

Who issued the parking charge. ?

Which hospital. ?

Which car park exactly. ?

Did complaining about the PCN to Pals not work. ?

If the hospital don't own the car park , who does. ?

We had one on here recently where somebody drove off the hospital car park onto the adjacent private club car park and parked on there, unaware that they were 2  separate car parks , the secretary of the club cancelled it 

fineclaret

Gr1pr said:

Did complaining about the PCN to Pals not work. ?

If the hospital don't own the car park , who does. ?

No, pals said they could not deal with it as it does not fall within their remit - it's not hospital property. Looking on Streetview, it used to be a pub, scheduled for demolition when the Google car passed that way....

Pals did say they wanted to do something about 'misleading signage'. That's presumably the staff parking, which is marked with the NHS logo.

I don't know who actually owns this car park. But the PCNs all clearly state 'Hospital Car Park'. IIRC, the signs in the car park did too, but my memory may be faulty on that.

Coupon-mad

Who issued the parking charge?

Which hospital?

Show us the PCN, front & back (your data redacted, but ALL DATES SHOWING).

fineclaret

Coupon-mad said:

Show us the PCN, front & back (your data redacted, but ALL DATES SHOWING)

Note - the date of posting is given as April 2nd. But I know I received it on about April 13th (12th at the earliest), as I appealed as soon as I received it, and have the appeal receipt email for that date. Absolutely no way of proving this of course; the envelope wasn't franked.

LDast

Where is the date of issue of the NtK? Without a date of issue it is invalid. When you appealed, did you give away your saving grace by identifying as having also been the driver?

There must be a reference date of the 28 day demand for payment. What was or wasn't on the envelope is irrelevant.

fineclaret

LDast said:

Where is the date of issue of the NtK? Without a date of issue it is invalid. When you appealed, did you give away your saving grace by identifying as having also been the driver?

There must be a reference date of the 28 day demand for payment. What was or wasn't on the envelope is irrelevant.

I am assuming "date of posting" functions as date of issue. Any specific period of 14 or 28 days is relative to 'the date of this notice'. There is also one undated reference to 'within 14 days', in red. As I appealed, I'd have expected the 14 days to start on rejection of that, but there has been no mention of the appeal; the subsequent letters just chug on through the process as if it hadn't happened. The appeal was rejected on 19th April, 17 days after "date of posting", so outside any possibility of reduction for anyone choosing to appeal, given I received it 10/11 days after its supposed posting.

I don't actually recall if I ID'd the driver in my appeal (and foolishly did not save a copy). Certainly didn't in the text of my submission, but can’t rule out answering a question carelessly. But, I thought this was not an effective defence any more? 

Coupon-mad

Sometimes it is, which is why we say don't say who was driving. Anyway, here's a thread by @kensiko showing you the letters you'll get:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6505618/possible-defence-upcoming-worth-adding-this/p1

Come back if you get a court claim. Doubt it!

Nellymoser

As you didn't receive PPC's mail within the presumed 2 day delivery time frame could I ask you to support this

So many people don't receive 1st/2nd pcn but the £170 payment due letter often manages to drop through letter boxes. PPCs always claim their letters were sent though offer no evidence to prove this. A letter's issue date is not it's sending date nor proof the letter was sent.

Since PPCs CHOOSE NOT to provide evidence of their posting date and delivery we must continue to press gov to ensure they do. Have a read of these petitions...sign and share. Thanks

Require communications from Private Parking companies to be traceable/trackable. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/652355

Immediately Reintroduce Private Parking Code of Practice. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/660922

Hope your pcn gets cancelled.

fineclaret

Nellymoser said:

As you didn't receive PPC's mail within the presumed 2 day delivery time frame could I ask you to support this

So many people don't receive 1st/2nd pcn but the £170 payment due letter often manages to drop through letter boxes. PPCs always claim their letters were sent though offer no evidence to prove this. A letter's issue date is not it's sending date nor proof the letter was sent.

Cheers. I have received the 60/100/170 letters, in order, but I am absolutely certain that the 1st did not arrive until 11 days after the 'date of posting', and hence 19 days after the alleged offence on 25th March. I appealed immediately, on the 13th April. My wife corroborates, but is hardly an independent party! But, there seems nothing to stop the PC sitting on a letter for a few days to crank up the charge.

There is also the matter of the appeal. The clock should stop, and a new deadline issued. But I guess that is based on fairness, rather than obligation. 

Gr1pr

Its currently an unregulated industry, so don't expect anything 

Regulations are due later this year, from the DLUHC 

a civil court is where you may win out, if they sue you, so as coupon mad says above, come back here if it gets to or beyond an LoC from a solicitor, or especially if you receive a court claim pack from the CNBC in Northampton within the next 6 years