Charge Notice for stopping at red light - Bristol Airport

Drivad

Hi all, 

My wife received a Charge Notice/Notice To Keeper from VCS. The Reason for Charge is '104) Stopping to Pick Up/Drop Off In a Restricted Area'. 

I was driving and had indeed gone to pick her up. I pulled up at the temporary traffic lights, which were red, and by coincidence she was there, so jumped into the car. She was in the vehicle before the lights went green. The photos highlight this - there are 3 photos and the red light is obviously visible in two of them, in the third the car door is closed. 

I foolishly thought this would be open and shut, so went online to complete the appeals process, foolishly giving my name in the process. It's only a week later I came across this forum, where the golden rule seems to be DON'T TELL THEM WHO THE DRIVER WAS!!

As such, what do I need to do here, as they will now have my information? 

A few extra details: 
- The 'incident' took place on 23rd April 2024, the Issue Date on the CN is 1st May 2024 but we didn't receive the letter until 15th May, although we can't prove this. 
- I have complained to Bristol Airport, the land owners (OTTP) and the DVLA, as I had read that VCS only had a contract to obtain details from the DVLA for parking-related offences. 

I guess my question is, they've stated 'STOPPING TO PICK UP AND DROP OFF' as the reason for the charge. That is not the reason I stopped BUT I did pick up and it's visible in the photos. Have I messed up or is this worth fighting?

Umkomaas

Definitely worth fighting.  While it's sounds you've told them the driver's identity - it happens, but not the end of the world, you've taken other actions that we recommend, complaints to the airport and to the DVLA.  I'd also recommend complaining to your MP so that some pressure can be placed on VCS. 

Forum regular @Fruitcake knows Bristol Airport and the 'stopping' scam well and I'm sure he'll be along later to offer some bespoke advice relative to it. 

Coupon-mad

You could try IAS for a laugh.  No paying even when you lose!

Not independent and a complete farce but it would be amusing to see how they decide a case where the conduct of the driver was 'stopping at a red light'.

Fruitcake

Yours is very similar to several other threads about this entrapment zone, including this one by @RRTechie.

Bristol Airport NTK - 104) Stopping to Pick-Up/Drop Off In a Restricted Zone — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Work your way through that thread and make note of actions to take and information to use, especially about the byelaws and requirements to stop when so directed.

You need to play the game and respond each and every time, and repeat and repeat that the driver cannot be liable for the actions of a passenger whilst the vehicle was stopped. You should repeat the following as a minimum in every reply.

Not the landowner
No standing (no contract) with the landowner to issue charges in their own name
Inadequate signage
Airport byelaws apply 
Stopping is not parking - the Homeguard v Jopson case applies
Driver not liable for the actions of a pedestrian
Driver required to stop at a red light - Airport Byelaws apply

Drivad

Thanks so much for your help! Will update as things progress. 

Drivad

Surprise surprise, VCS have rejected the appeal. 

Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our
main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
The signs at the crossing, clearly state "No Pick Up or Drop Off", giving clear notice that the land is private property
and that a Charge of £100 will be levied if vehicles do stop. The above detailed vehicle picked up/dropped off in a
zone where both are prohibited and the driver became liable to pay that Charge.
In your appeal you have confirmed to us that on the date in question, you stopped your vehicle on the access road,
which is an area where stopping is not permitted.
A review of our CCTV evidence has confirmed that on the date in question, your vehicle stopped to collect a
passenger on the access road where restrictions apply.

Appeal has now been sent to IAS. Fail to see how anyone with half a brain could fail to see that this CN is a total farce, but completely expect this to progress to court. 

Have complained to the airport, who have ignored the 'traffic light' of it all and stated that "All of Bristol Airport’s roadways have had a longstanding problem with vehicles stopping in unsafe areas, leading to delays and congestion, as well as posing a high risk to the safety of passengers and colleagues."

Also sent a compaint to the land owner, with no response, and to my MP, but have received an Out of Office as Parliament isn't sitting until after the election. 

Feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!!!

Drivad

Update on the above: Appeal rejected by IAS, still no reply from MP, Bristol airport not interested. 

Have today received a letter from a debt collector. Was pretty zen about this previously but my wife and I are hoping to move house and it’s only today dawned on me that my credit score could be damaged by this, I’ve been advised that a court case could remain on there for 6 years if unsuccessful. 

I’m reassured by the success of some other users here but at the same time I’m so beaten down and burnt out by all of this that I’m considering giving up and paying these scum bags before it all gets too much for me. I’m all for doing the right thing, but if that’s going to stop us getting our family home then it’s just not worth it. 

Has anyone had any success of paying under protest and claiming the costs back in small claims court?

Gr1pr

Unlikely to succeed IMHO , paying it in full could be construed as guilty 

Just ensure that you update your address with the DPO at VCS when you move house, ditto with your driving licence and V5C with the DVLA, ditto with all other relevant parties in your lives , banks, energy, council everyone 

KeithP

Why do you think that failing to pay an alleged debt to these people is going to somehow affect your creditworthiness?

Powerless debt collectors simply cannot damage your credit score.

Only if the case proceeds to court and you lose the court case and you fail to pay what the court demands in the timescale allowed is there any chance of a lasting judgment adversely affecting your ability to raise credit.

And just to add... you are onto a loser if you think you can pay up now and then sue to get you money back. Why would any court order the return of money you willingly parted with?

Now that's enough talk about losing.

Didn't you read the guidance in the fourth post of the NEWBIES thread that debt collector's letters are to be ignored?

Fruitcake

If you pay, you will become part of the problem. You will be contributing to the scam. You will be supporting it, funding it, so other people will be scammed as well.

These parking companies in general, and this one in particular prey on ignorance and fear. The owner of this company is a millionaire ex-clamper, previously known as Mister Clampit. 

As already advised, debt collectors are powerless. You cannot get a CCJ, nor can a loss in court affect your ability to obtain credit be affected unless YOU allow it to happen. Everything is within your control and within your power.

As I said previously, at every stage you need to play the game and respond each and every time, and repeat and repeat that the driver cannot be liable for the actions of a passenger whilst the vehicle was stopped. You should repeat the following as a minimum in every reply.

Not the landowner
No standing (no contract) with the landowner to issue charges in their own name
Inadequate signage
Airport byelaws apply 
Stopping is not parking - the Homeguard v Jopson case applies
Driver not liable for the actions of a pedestrian
Driver required to stop at a red light - Airport Byelaws apply

Drivad

Only if the case proceeds to court and you lose the court case and you fail to pay what the court demands in the timescale allowed is there any chance of a lasting judgment adversely affecting your ability to raise credit.

Thanks for this, but this is completely counter to what the National Debtline told me. They advised that failure to pay the PCN already leave a black mark on my credit score and a failure to win in court would result in a 6 year restriction on borrowing. Have I been misinformed here? If the CCJ only applies if the court instructed charges aren’t paid, then perhaps it’s a risk worth taking. 

I appreciate the correspondence and support, but it’s hard not to feel intimidated and beaten down by these scumbags.