Diesel Scrappage Scheme

Mildly_Miffed

Would the £7k for your old car have still been applicable if you'd paid cash for the car, not financed it?

Yes.

So how can it be a deposit for the finance, rather than a discount from the car?

ontheroad1970

I've used a car as part ex when using finance - the deposit was against the price of the car.  The balance to be financed was the screen price minus the part ex price.  The part ex wasn't a deposit on the finance so had nothing to do with the finance at all.  

400ixl

Having read your thread on the other site. Even there it is clear that the ex-legal person you were working with is not convinced in many places you have a case, but you barrelled on regardless.

They even state that a manufacturer contribution is not a deposit and asked you if the invoice you had stated the word deposit as without this your case is weak. 

Example quote "What are your thoughts on this? They are claiming the part-exchange was a discount off the vehicle rather than a deposit, is that true? If so, that blows any defence you have on that out of the water"

You answered everything around that and when asked on here if it was registered as a deposit and you haven't answered.

Does your invoice have a line stating a deposit of £7k?

Its not that people are trying to be awkward, they are trying to see if there is merit in you spending more money on this or not.

UnkownUser2024

400ixl said:

Having read your thread on the other site. Even there it is clear that the ex-legal person you were working with is not convinced in many places you have a case, but you barrelled on regardless.

They even state that a manufacturer contribution is not a deposit and asked you if the invoice you had stated the word deposit as without this your case is weak. 

Example quote "What are your thoughts on this? They are claiming the part-exchange was a discount off the vehicle rather than a deposit, is that true? If so, that blows any defence you have on that out of the water"

You answered everything around that and when asked on here if it was registered as a deposit and you haven't answered.

Does your invoice have a line stating a deposit of £7k?

Its not that people are trying to be awkward, they are trying to see if there is merit in you spending more money on this or not.

If you read on from this. R0b then looked up the legislation and realised that it did not matter what it was listed as in the order forms, it was still a deposit by virtue under the definition laid out in the CCA1974

And considering he wrote my Defence and Counter Claim for me I would say he was pretty confident that I had a strong case

UnkownUser2024

ontheroad1970 said:

I've used a car as part ex when using finance - the deposit was against the price of the car.  The balance to be financed was the screen price minus the part ex price.  The part ex wasn't a deposit on the finance so had nothing to do with the finance at all.  

If this is the case and the car price was let's say 35k discounted by 7k by way of a deposit, then why even label this on the agreement at all?

Why not just say the vehicle cash price is 35k?

Okell

400ixl said:

Having read your thread on the other site. Even there it is clear that the ex-legal person you were working with is not convinced in many places you have a case, but you barrelled on regardless...

I'd have to say I think that might be a little bit of a misrepresentation of the thread on Legal Beagles and the advice given there(?).

What I'd say is that the advisor (and I think he's definitely one of the most reliable on that forum) was not 100% convinced of the OP's case (what lawyer would be) but having read the whole thread I'd say his advice was rather encouraging.  And I don't think that would have been the case if he'd been unconvinced of the OP's case in many places.

I thought he also seemed to be pretty clear that he was rather dubious about the judge's analysis of how the discount/deposit affected the agreements between (a) the dealer  and VWFS and (b) VWFS and the OP.

And if the part-x car contributed no value to the purchase and was just a discount, why did the OP need to give it up?

"I feel that the judge is trying to make something fit that isn't really there. The fact of the matter is that the CCA and associated legislation was introduced to protect the consumer from what is typically and can be complex matters to figure out. The onus is on the creditor to ensure it has the right things in place and it may be that the judge has been sucked into persuasion of the barrister's arguments." ***

I'm certainly not going to encourage the OP to pursue an appeal that has no hope and to throw good money after bad, but having read all 10 pages on legal beagles I'm not sure it's as clear cut as many people here seem to assume. 

CCJ from VWFS (Car Finance) - LegalBeagles Forum

If you don't want to read all of the verdict is from post #122


***  It seems to me that the scheme was deliberately devised to circumvent consumer protections built into the CCA

UnkownUser2024

XRS200 said:

UnkownUser2024 said:

Similarly, if someone is able to find the exact wording of the terms and conditions of how the Government managed the Diesel Scrappage Scheme in 2018 that would be an absolute life saver!

There are a couple of comments that this wasn't a government scheme.  

What argument would you have in court for appeal?

I would spend money getting a barristers opinion before going to court where you could end up with the other parties costs

Sorry missed this comment amongst all the criticism from other posters

I still don't know who ran the scheme in all honesty. All I know is I was given 7k for my car to be scrapped and put towards a new car, whether that was the manufacturer or the government, it was certainly someone's incentive. 

My argument to put forward for appeal is that the law has been misinterpreted, that the Judge has not followed the CCA and that the way I was treated in Court was biased (As a LiP I was belittled, interrupted, spoken over and not given a fair chance to speak)
The judge also believed there were two separate contracts, when in fact there was only one contract which was between myself and the finance company. The dealership was simply a negotiator in the middle

I agree that a barristers advice would be invaluable and I am willing to spend the money on that advice, it's just finding one who understands a very niche situation like this

UnkownUser2024

Mildly_Miffed said:

Would the £7k for your old car have still been applicable if you'd paid cash for the car, not financed it?

Yes.

So how can it be a deposit for the finance, rather than a discount from the car?

No it wouldn't have been. The scrappage scheme was only eligible on financed new cars as far as I was aware. 

It was also not to be used in conjunction with any other offer, but low and behold I received further discounts on top of the scrappage discount so the agreement has still been improperly executed no matter how you look at it

UnkownUser2024

Okell said:

400ixl said:

Having read your thread on the other site. Even there it is clear that the ex-legal person you were working with is not convinced in many places you have a case, but you barrelled on regardless...

I'd have to say I think that might be a little bit of a misrepresentation of the thread on Legal Beagles and the advice given there(?).

What I'd say is that the advisor (and I think he's definitely one of the most reliable on that forum) was not 100% convinced of the OP's case (what lawyer would be) but having read the whole thread I'd say his advice was rather encouraging.  And I don't think that would have been the case if he'd been unconvinced of the OP's case in many places.

I thought he also seemed to be pretty clear that he was rather dubious about the judge's analysis of how the discount/deposit affected the agreements between (a) the dealer  and VWFS and (b) VWFS and the OP.

And if the part-x car contributed no value to the purchase and was just a discount, why did the OP need to give it up?

"I feel that the judge is trying to make something fit that isn't really there. The fact of the matter is that the CCA and associated legislation was introduced to protect the consumer from what is typically and can be complex matters to figure out. The onus is on the creditor to ensure it has the right things in place and it may be that the judge has been sucked into persuasion of the barrister's arguments." ***

I'm certainly not going to encourage the OP to pursue an appeal that has no hope and to throw good money after bad, but having read all 10 pages on legal beagles I'm not sure it's as clear cut as many people here seem to assume. 



If you don't want to read all of the verdict is from post #122


***  It seems to me that the scheme was deliberately devised to circumvent consumer protections built into the CCA

Thanks for your constructive view on this. I definitely was not confident in defending and Counter claiming but on the advice from the lawyer on LB I felt like he really wanted me to keep going with this. The other thing to take into account is that I won the set aside, on the basis that VWFS lied and accused me of lying. They claimed there had been no evidence of my cash deposit or my part exchanged car and it was on me to prove this, which I did. The judge for that hearing also gave me grounds that I had a good chance at defending the case, his reasoning for setting aside the CCJ. 

I just wanted to clarify your final asterisk point at the bottom of your response, is that your opinion, that the scrappage scheme was devised to work around the protections of the CCA?

In any event the top of the HP agreement states that it is controlled by the CCA1974 and so it shouldn't be right that they are finding ways to dismiss this legislation and ignore it

WellKnownSid

UnkownUser2024 said:
I still don't know who ran the scheme in all honesty. All I know is I was given 7k for my car to be scrapped and put towards a new car, whether that was the manufacturer or the government, it was certainly someone's incentive. 

At the time of purchase, were you able to change your mind, walk into any Renault, BMW, Peugeot, Jag, Dacia, Kia, Ford etc dealer out of the blue, slap the keys of your old banger on the salesman's desk and get that exact same £7k off the new vehicle of your choice?

If that is true, then you can be confident that it's a Government scheme you are talking about.