New radiators - totally baffled!

A1ps

Thank you gents for the very help replies yet again. As walls, I really do appreciate the help and advice.

I really do not know why this always happens to me. This guy came very highly recommended via the Next Door app.

I'm going to forward him the advice you've given for both the floor and the pipes. Unfortunately I don't

Regarding the push-fit elbow and its release collar - what's the best way to fix this please? Is it a simple matter of replacing the fittings?

FreeBear

A1ps said: Regarding the push-fit elbow and its release collar - what's the best way to fix this please? Is it a simple matter of replacing the fittings?

Looks like it is copper below, so the sensible thing to do is run a new length of copper up from the elbow further down. Alternatively, connect the two with a solder fitting - I dislike those push-fit fittings, big ugly things... But I can understand why some people use them. Quick, easily dismantled, and useful in tight spaces.

A1ps

Thank you FreeBear. So take off the current copper pipe and the fitting, and run a new copper pipe from the elbow itself? Alternatively, solder the pipe at the point of the current fixing?

ThisIsWeird

A1ps said:

Regarding the push-fit elbow and its release collar - what's the best way to fix this please? Is it a simple matter of replacing the fittings?

It depends on a couple of things; how far below the underside of the floor they are located, and how much movement is in the horizontal pipe that's supplying it.

Do you understand what the potential problem is? If the fitting is close to the underside of the floor (ie, when that hole is covered up), and you pull upwards on the copper pipe, the fitting will make contact with the underside of the floor, and that release collar will be pushed in. Ie, you'd be able to fully pull that copper pipe out of the fitting.

But, if there's no risk of that happening - ie there's a safe clearance between the fitting and the floor, and/or the horizontal pipe will prevent the fitting from being pulled upwards, then there's no risk. Also, some of these 'press-collar-to-release' fittings have optional clips to slip in behind the collar to prevent this very thing from happening. You appear to have two different makes there, so I have no idea if these safety clips are available - I'd ask your plumber.

So, it could well be ok - I'm just making you aware, that's all. 

If the fittings are close to the floor - within an inch, say - and there's 'slack' to allow it to also be pulled upwards, then I'd be concerned. It's fairly common, for example, for folk decorating their walls to remove the rads but without fully disconnecting them; they slacken the valve connections to the rad, and then lift the whole rad off the brackets - pulling the supply pipes with them - before pivoting them forwards to lie on the floor. The 'pulling upwards' part could cause this issue!

So, how close is the end of the elbow from the underside of the floor?

FreeBear

A1ps said:

Thank you FreeBear. So take off the current copper pipe and the fitting, and run a new copper pipe from the elbow itself? Alternatively, solder the pipe at the point of the current fixing?

If the elbow is reusable (not all those push fit fittings are), then a continuous piece of copper is the most sensible solution - Fewer joints to leak.

A solder fitting, next best if the elbow is one of the single use variety. But you need to ensure that little heat transfers to the plastic elbow (cold wet cloth wrapped around the elbow).

MysteryMe

I think the standard of work by that "highly recommended" plumber demonstrates how much caution must to given with these online/social media trader sites.  If you really don't know anyone through personal recommendation i.e. people you actually know who have had work done then both Which and Trading Standards have traders schemes where the traders are properly vetted.

ThisIsWeird

MysteryMe said:

I think the standard of work by that "highly recommended" plumber demonstrates how much caution must to given with these online/social media trader sites.  If you really don't know anyone through personal recommendation i.e. people you actually know who have had work done then both Which and Trading Standards have traders schemes where the traders are properly vetted.

Absolutely. That plumber's standard of work is 'poor-DIYer' at best. When you add in that they find this job a challenge, including not knowing how to fill the floor holes, I'd up that to 'poor beginner DIYer'.
After this agony is over, I think it's incumbent on A1ps to write an honest review, anon if needed. All the good stuff - er, he's a nice bloke - but make clear what they shouldn't be used for.

A1ps

ThisIsWeird said:

A1ps said:

Regarding the push-fit elbow and its release collar - what's the best way to fix this please? Is it a simple matter of replacing the fittings?

It depends on a couple of things; how far below the underside of the floor they are located, and how much movement is in the horizontal pipe that's supplying it.

Do you understand what the potential problem is? If the fitting is close to the underside of the floor (ie, when that hole is covered up), and you pull upwards on the copper pipe, the fitting will make contact with the underside of the floor, and that release collar will be pushed in. Ie, you'd be able to fully pull that copper pipe out of the fitting.

But, if there's no risk of that happening - ie there's a safe clearance between the fitting and the floor, and/or the horizontal pipe will prevent the fitting from being pulled upwards, then there's no risk. Also, some of these 'press-collar-to-release' fittings have optional clips to slip in behind the collar to prevent this very thing from happening. You appear to have two different makes there, so I have no idea if these safety clips are available - I'd ask your plumber.

So, it could well be ok - I'm just making you aware, that's all. 

If the fittings are close to the floor - within an inch, say - and there's 'slack' to allow it to also be pulled upwards, then I'd be concerned. It's fairly common, for example, for folk decorating their walls to remove the rads but without fully disconnecting them; they slacken the valve connections to the rad, and then lift the whole rad off the brackets - pulling the supply pipes with them - before pivoting them forwards to lie on the floor. The 'pulling upwards' part could cause this issue!

So, how close is the end of the elbow from the underside of the floor?

Thanks TIW. As you guys can no doubt tell, I really do not know about this kind of stuff. But thanks to all of you, I'm learning (I think).

So, if I'm correct, if the fittings are high up, if for any reason the pipes are pulled upwards (cleaning, moving rads for painting etc), they'll catch the floor and push in, therefore releasing them and water leaking out?

I will be painting very soon, so the rads will be moving a little. 

I checked some of the measurements. In some of the rooms, there's a lot of gap between the fixings and bottom of the floor. In others, little to no room at all. 

I took a few pictures in different rooms.

Loft room: the 4th picture here is worrying if these are the press-collar fixings.

My room:

Kids:

Hallway:

A1ps

FreeBear said:

A1ps said:

Thank you FreeBear. So take off the current copper pipe and the fitting, and run a new copper pipe from the elbow itself? Alternatively, solder the pipe at the point of the current fixing?

If the elbow is reusable (not all those push fit fittings are), then a continuous piece of copper is the most sensible solution - Fewer joints to leak.

A solder fitting, next best if the elbow is one of the single use variety. But you need to ensure that little heat transfers to the plastic elbow (cold wet cloth wrapped around the elbow).

So get rid of the push fittings and then a copper pipe from the bottom fitting / elbow?

MysteryMe said:

I think the standard of work by that "highly recommended" plumber demonstrates how much caution must to given with these online/social media trader sites.  If you really don't know anyone through personal recommendation i.e. people you actually know who have had work done then both Which and Trading Standards have traders schemes where the traders are properly vetted.

ThisIsWeird said:

MysteryMe said:

I think the standard of work by that "highly recommended" plumber demonstrates how much caution must to given with these online/social media trader sites.  If you really don't know anyone through personal recommendation i.e. people you actually know who have had work done then both Which and Trading Standards have traders schemes where the traders are properly vetted.

Absolutely. That plumber's standard of work is 'poor-DIYer' at best. When you add in that they find this job a challenge, including not knowing how to fill the floor holes, I'd up that to 'poor beginner DIYer'.
After this agony is over, I think it's incumbent on A1ps to write an honest review, anon if needed. All the good stuff - er, he's a nice bloke - but make clear what they shouldn't be used for.

You guys are spot on. I don't know what work her did for others, but as I mentioned I dont know much about DIY'ing, but even to my standard I could tell the plumber's rubbish, and in a round-about kinda way did tell him But have to be careful as I've paid him (I know I know) and need him to come back and finish the botch-job he's started.

Lesson learned about going by NextDoor recommendations

ThisIsWeird

A1ps said:

So, if I'm correct, if the fittings are high up, if for any reason the pipes are pulled upwards (cleaning, moving rads for painting etc), they'll catch the floor and push in, therefore releasing them and water leaking out?

I will be painting very soon, so the rads will be moving a little. 

I checked some of the measurements. In some of the rooms, there's a lot of gap between the fixings and bottom of the floor. In others, little to no room at all. 

I took a few pictures in different rooms.

Loft room: the 4th picture here is worrying if these are the press-collar fixings.

Yes, that example is nothing short of terrifying - that is an accident waiting to happen, with a very high probability that it will. If that collar is pressed down, the copper pipe will be released, and will almost certainly blow out under the water pressure.

Most of the other fittings look to be Hep2O, are more safe - they need a 'HepKey' slipped over the pipe, and pushed in to the fitting end before the pipe is released. That design was made simply to prevent the issue with the JG Speedfit in that second pic above.

These needs them fellows: