New radiators - totally baffled!

A1ps

FreeBear said:

A1ps said: Apparently the current pipe work is horrific! But that's understandable as the guy who built the house was an absolute cowboy and has cut every corner possible. 

Depending on how much work you are willing to do, it might pay to replumb the entire system. I did this last year for three reasons. A new combi boiler fitted in a different location to replace an old back boiler. Wanted to move some of the radiators to different walls. Also wanted to future-proof the system ready for the day when a heat pump is the only option. So 22mm pipes for the feed/return, short runs of 15mm to the radiators, and a big bag of fittings. A lot of work for little short term gain, but there will be a lot less disruption if/when I have a heat pump.

My boiler's fairly new at 10 years old. As for replumbing my entire system. Not only will this be costly to do, but to this I'll also need to add the cost of employing a divorce lawyer. My wife's absolutely fed up with the time this house is taking to do, along with having to deal with some of the cowboys who have come.

* A painter who took 3 weeks to paint a 15 x 8 room. This is just a very small part of that story.

* A builder who took 4 months to NOT finish a 7 x 7 ensuite. This also is a super long story, but not even the following pics can show just how bad those 4 months were. 

FreeBear

A1ps said: The first 2 are from my bedroom. Near impossible to get good pics. 

The last 2 are the loft room and much better pics. No doubt what you see in these 2 pics will resemble what's in all the other rooms. To me it looks like the builder has used plastic fixings. If this was an OK method, I'd want copper. I'd also want straight pipes to the rads. Some of the current pipes are slightly angled.

OK. Looks like you have plastic pipes under the floor with Speedfit (or similar) fittings. Extending them (with more Speedfit & plastic pipe) and coming up to the radiator with copper tails is going to be your best option. With a bit of forethought, the plumber can put some pipe clips under the floor (might need some noggins) so that the copper is vertical.

A1ps

Thanks FreeBear. I'll look into this suggestion next week and compile costs for parts and labour, just to then propose this method. I can then judge what they say with some knowledge behind 

What do you think of the current piping? Is it as bad as I think it is? Or can I go with something similar - albeit with copper?

FreeBear

A1ps said: What do you think of the current piping? Is it as bad as I think it is? Or can I go with something similar - albeit with copper?

Plastic pipe with Speedfit fittings is adequate & serviceable. When it is hidden under flooring, it doesn't really matter what it looks like.

Yes, you could replace some/all of it with copper, but there is no real need. And as you say, it could end in the divorce court.

A1ps

Thanks again guys for all the help, not just for today but throughout this thread. Really appreciate it 

No doubt I'll be back again next week for more of the above 

ThisIsWeird

Plastic 'speedfit' is much easier to run, comes in long continuous lengths (fewer joints), is naturally better insulated, and is far less likely to be damaged by freezing.

But, it looks ugly.

So what you have in your home - plastic running under the floor, but changing to straight copper tails to come up to the rads - is a good compromise.

A1ps

Thanks ThisIsWeird and everyone. I'll relay this to my plumber to make sure the correct parts are ordered.

A1ps

Good evening guys

Well, 3 Saturdays wasted to get the radiators fitted and we're still not there  

The plumber, as nice as he is, just doesn't seem to have a clue.

Firstly, the pipes were not straight. So I got him to fix this. Then one of the radiators was not bled properly nor fitted correctly as it vibrated as you walked along. Now there are huge gaps in the floor which he said he could fill with appropriate material but now he's struggling to do this as he can't get screws in due to the lack of space. He's suggested putting in insulation under the floor and then using foam to fill the gaps.

These are 2 of the larger gaps. Is it  normal method to fill gaps this big with foam???



Also, the rads have this slidy thing (pic below) on the top. The slider is not connected to anything so wondering what its purpose is?

FreeBear

A1ps said: Firstly, the pipes were not straight. So I got him to fix this. Then one of the radiators was not bled properly nor fitted correctly as it vibrated as you walked along. Now there are huge gaps in the floor which he said he could fill with appropriate material but now he's struggling to do this as he can't get screws in due to the lack of space. He's suggested putting in insulation under the floor and then using foam to fill the gaps.

These are 2 of the larger gaps. Is it  normal method to fill gaps this big with foam???

Also, the rads have this slidy thing (pic below) on the top. The slider is not connected to anything so wondering what its purpose is?

The bit of plastic just holds the louvered grill up. Leave it be.

As for the hole - Your plumber just doesn't have a clue. What he should have done, is cut the board back to the joist either side. Fix some battens to the joists, and then insert a new board (cut neatly round the pipe).

Shoving random crap in there and then squirting Bodger's Foam on top just isn't acceptable. As soon as you put a table/chair leg on it, it will sink straight in. If this plumber can't do a proper job with the floorboard, he needs to pay a carpenter to do it (and not pass the cost on to you).

ThisIsWeird

A1ps said:

These are 2 of the larger gaps. Is it  normal method to fill gaps this big with foam???

As FreeBear says, foam and stuff is a terrible bodge - the sort of thing I'd be tempted to do, but only if the holes were much smaller with no risk of anything landing on top - and then I'd cardboard the underside to limit its depth to the floor thickness, and sleeve the pipe to ensure no contact whatsoever. In short, even I would baulk at doing this.

To fix these two holes is standard work for most plumbers, and if they cannot do this, then they should know someone who can.

Do you have the bits that came out? If not, fresh pieces of board should be cut to fit with reasonable accuracy - a wee gap around can be filled afterwards with caulk. Then, as FreeBear says, a method is required to support these pieces in place; for the bottom pic, all that's needed is a short piece of, say, 2x1 timber batten, fitted diagonally would prob be better, and screwed down into through the floor, and the other one needs two pieces of batten as shown, one screwed flat to the joist side.

Then, holes drilled in the replacement board pieces for the pipes, allowing clearance - say, 18mm dia - and finally two wee cuts from these holes to the wall edge to make them 'slots' so they can be slipped sideways over the pipes. If you cut these slots at an angle, narrowing as you go to the underside, then the slot pieces can be dropped in afterwards without falling through, and secured with just a bit of caulk, and this will leave just the pipe hole remaining.

A word of warning, especially re the top pic. That push-fit elbow appears to have its release collar around where the pipe exits - see orange arrow. If you press down firmly on that collar, the copper pipe will be released. This might happen accidentally if that fitting is just below floor level, and someone pulls upwards on that copper pipe - the collar will be stopped on the underside of the floor, and the pipe could be released, even partially - a flood waiting to happen.

Not sure what type of fitting is used in the bottom pic, if the same applies.