Storage heaters & Economy 7 concerns - advice needed

DragonRider83

My mum has just bought a flat in a complex for the over 60s. For various reasons it was quite a rushed process and perhaps we made a couple of errors of judgment, but that's done now and what we need are solutions for the situation she is in. She has not yet moved in.

The block of flats is electric only, so no gas, and heat pumps are not yet permitted. The flat currently has two storage heaters of the older variety (Creda TSR12AW) and the boiler is a Gledhill PulsaCoil ECO Stainless, which is only designed to work with off-peak electricity, i.e. the Economy 7 tariff. We only discovered this today - again, I'm sure some of you will wonder how we didn't establish this beforehand, but we genuinely didn't know such a thing existed - we had no idea a boiler could be exclusive to a certain kind of tariff. (NB - she hasn't entered into any kind of contract yet - the flat has been vacant for four years, so the electricity is currently on a pay-as-you-go key thingy until we change it.)

The problem is, we have done some research and really don't think that storage heaters Economy 7 would suit her. I stayed in an AirBnB which had storage heaters over Christmas and it was awful - we boiled to death in the middle of the night and froze all evening, and it seems like this is not uncommon! The storage heaters in the flat are older ones, so there is less control over their input and output, and she is afraid that they'll have run out of heat by the evening, which is when she will need it the most. The boiler also has terrible reviews, with many people saying it doesn't give them enough hot water in the evening to wash their hair, let alone have a bath, is always going wrong and Gledhill has lousy customer service. 

Also, the Economy 7 tariff means that electricity during the day is loads more expensive than it would be on a 'normal' tariff, so everything else she does during the day, like using her computer (she still works from home) watching TV, using the washing machine, plus using electricity to power a fan heater or oil radiator if the heat has run out in the evening, would work out very expensive. She isn't very tech-savvy and I've read that if you find it hard to get the settings right or just make a mistake because you don't understand, it can land you with massive bills, and I'm worried that is likely to happen. General opinion from what I have read seems to be that if you use 45% or more of your overall electricity during those off-peak hours (11pm-6am where the flat is) it's worth it; otherwise it'll work out more expensive. She would use virtually zero between those times.

What we're thinking is that it might be more practical, cheaper in the long run and easier to work, if we got rid of the storage heaters and the Gledhill boiler, in favour of a non-off-peak boiler JUST to heat hot water, and have two electric radiators (not wired in, just standalone that you plug in) which she can control manually, whenever she needs heat (one in the bedroom, one in the living room) and be on a normal electricity tariff with no off-peak hours but a standard, consistent, lower one.

Does this sound like a practical idea? Would it likely work out cheaper in the long-run? How complicated/expensive would it be to get rid of the existing boiler in favour of one which is only for hot water? CAN you have a boiler just for hot water? Neither of us have ever lived in a property without gas central heating before, so we're really not knowledgeable about these things and would really value some unbiased (as in, not trying to sell us anything) advice. We are aware that electricity costs more than gas, so we are prepared for her energy bill to be somewhat higher than where she is now, but she isn't wealthy and we need to make sure her bills aren't extortionate in the long term. I would rather help her buy a new boiler now, for example, if it's going to reduce overall costs going forward, than see her panic when she gets a £300 per month bill and feel like she has to shiver all winter because she can't afford to turn on peak-time heating.

Additional info about lifestyle, etc:
My mum would be the only person living there. She feels the cold, but doesn't like to sleep in a warm room, so the bedroom radiator, if she had one, would be turned off most of the time. There won't be a dishwasher, and the washing machine/tumble dryer would be used once a week maximum. She is slightly disabled and benefits from having a hot bath a couple of times a week. There is a shower, but it's not an electric one. She works from home some of the time, so uses a computer for much of the day, and watches quite a bit of TV. 

If anyone could offer any pearls of wisdom, we'd really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance!

Swipe

As an economy 7 user with old style Creda TSR storage heaters and an immersion heater for hot water, that setup sounds perfectly adequate for an insulated flat and won't be overly expensive unlike changing it all for what you are suggesting. Why not see how she gets on with it before you go ripping it all out and regret it?

DragonRider83

Swipe said:

As an economy 7 user with old style Creda TSR storage heaters and an immersion heater for hot water, that setup sounds perfectly adequate for an insulated flat and won't be overly expensive unlike changing it all for what you are suggesting. Why not see how she gets on with it before you go ripping it all out and regret it?

Thanks for the reply. How do you find it? Do you get enough heat and hot water lasting into the evenings, especially in the winter? Do you find that the electricity you have to use during peak times (TV, lights, computer, etc) doesn't actually add up to too much?

From a page on MSE dedicated to the topic, it says:
"The problem is many people are still on Economy 7 when it's not right for them. Daytime rates can be hideous, so you can end up massively overpaying. If you use a very low proportion of electricity at night – for example, 10% – you'd typically be about £150 a year better off on a regular single-rate tariff. If that's you, see if you can switch to a single rate tariff."

That's not a criticism and thanks for your advice, we might well do a 'trial run' as long as we wouldn't be locked into an Economy 7 contract for too long if it didn't suit her.

Money5

Hi, I'm not sure if you are aware but the Economy 7 tariff is to be discontinued altogether from June 2025. Apparently the date was originally for this year but has been delayed to allow energy companies to replace any meters which may need replacing.
My own property is all electric with a stainless steel hot water cylinder which is connected to an Economy 7 timer.
I have 2 storage heaters which are also Economy 7 and I have a Radio Teleswitch box in my electric meter cupboard next to my electric meters(on my stair landing) which sends readings to the energy supplier.
I have been considering replacing my 2 storage heaters with more modern electric heaters - a neighbour recently changed his for Dimplex panel heaters.
I plan to consult with my electrician before having them replaced as it looks as though I may need to contact my energy supplier to have a new meter installed first to replace the 'Radio Teleswitch'  and I will also need to find out if the Economy 7 box connected to my hot water tank also needs to be changed.
My advice therefore would be to contact your mums energy supplier first and then speak to a reliable electrician before making any changes.
Hopefully you can get this done before your mum moves in. Good luck. 

Money5

I've just double checked and the Economy 7 tariff is being removed altogether in March 2025 (not June 2025)
There is some more information on this website if you search 'Economy 7'
Meters may require to be replaced!

lohr500

Firstly for clarity, it is not my understanding that the Economy 7 tariff is to be ended from June 2025.
The issue relates to older Economy 7 meter installations like your mother's, controlled by a "Radio Teleswitch" which uses a long wave signal transmitted by the BBC to switch on and off the off-peak rate. The BBC wants to switch off the service, claiming they can no longer support it.

However, modern smart meters do not use the Radio Teleswitch system and can support Economy 7 without it. 
So long as you can get a working smart meter installed that supports Economy 7 switching, then the tariff will remain available. Who is the current electricity supplier? It is important when getting the old meter/teleswitch replaced to make it absolutely clear to the supplier that you wish to remain on an Eco 7 tariff. You also need to establish if you need a 5 port meter or a 4 port meter with an external contactor for the Economy 7. A photo of the existing meter/teleswitch/fuse boxes would help to provide some guidance.

There have been reports on the forum of some suppliers, particularly British Gas, who have installed smart meters into properties with Economy 7 and in doing so lost the ability to maintain the Economy 7 tariff. EDF replaced our old Eco 7 Radio Teleswitch setup a few years ago with a smart meter and we had no problems at all.

Secondly, if she does find that the older storage heaters don't stay cool enough through the night and have lost most of their heat by late afternoon/early evening, it might be worth you looking at the modern Dimplex high heat retention storage heaters to replace them. I have no experience of these newer storage heaters, but they do get good reports on the forum. They apparently "leak" less heat overnight whilst they heat up internally during the off peak period and during the day when not needed. Also, if you do go down this route, make sure you find a good heating engineer who can specify the correct size for the two storage heaters so they are up to the job.

If all the bulbs in the flat are the latest energy efficiency ones and her TV is a modern one, then her daytime peak rate electricity sage shouldn't be enough to outweigh the benefits of Eco 7 off-peak for water heating, storage heaters, laundry, etc.

DragonRider83

Money5 said:

I've just double checked and the Economy 7 tariff is being removed altogether in March 2025 (not June 2025)
There is some more information on this website if you search 'Economy 7'
Meters may require to be replaced!

Hmm, I've had a search and while I've found that it's being discontinued, I'm unclear as to what the implications would be for those who use it. Presumably, as things stand, nobody will be able to take out a 12 month contract on E7 any more because it will be discontinued before that contract is up, so it might not even be an option now.

From what I've read, it looks like the end of E7 will mean that rates will go up for those using storage heaters and boilers like hers, so might moving to a normal tariff be the best option, even if it does incur some immediate costs, i.e. of removing the old boiler, etc? Or, if we waited (and contacted the electricity company) would the electricity company have to replace the boiler for free, since it might no longer be compatible with the service it was designed to work with but they're discontinuing?

Money5

Oops- please read lohr500s post above- it seems that the Economy 7 tariff will still be available but you need to check your electric meters as they may need replaced with a new meter depending the age/type of the meters.

Mine do need replacing as they are the Radio Teleswitch type and over 30 years old.

Apologies for the confusion- it is the RTS (radio teleswitch) which is being switched off in March 2025.

BarelySentientAI

Sorry OP, but you've had some duff and misleading information from early posts on here.  To confirm what lohr500 said:

The RTS (Radio Teleswitch) system is (al the moment) being shut down in 2025.  It was also being shut down in 2022, 2023 and 2024, none of which actually happened.  Whilst some people have, incorrectly, conflated this with the end of E7 tariffs, they are wrong.  The terminology might eventually disappear, but that's just semantics.

Smart meters can quite happily run E7 and many more complicated tariffs if set up to do so.

If you use enough electricity in the cheap periods which, for a property where the largest electricity demand by far will be the space heating and hot water, modern storage heaters and a hot water tank are likely to be by far the cheapest option.

Panel heaters and electric boilers on an E7 tariff are pretty much the worst possible option.  If you end up with this sort of equipment, you will want a single rate tariff.

DragonRider83 said:

From what I've read, it looks like the end of E7 will mean that rates will go up for those using storage heaters and boilers like hers, so might moving to a normal tariff be the best option, even if it does incur some immediate costs, i.e. of removing the old boiler, etc? Or, if we waited (and contacted the electricity company) would the electricity company have to replace the boiler for free, since it might no longer be compatible with the service it was designed to work with but they're discontinuing?

So, just to clarify.  There is no end of E7.  Rates will not go up for those on E7 tariffs any differently from those on other tariffs (and in recent years E7 tariffs have been some of the cheapest around).  The electricity company will not replace the boiler and it will still work anyway.

Money5

Thank you to lohr500 for clearing that up.
My energy supplier are Scottish Power and I will be sure to check they replace with a meter that allows me to stay with Economy 7 tariff.

inspectorperez

Money5 said:

I've just double checked and the Economy 7 tariff is being removed altogether in March 2025 (not June 2025)
There is some more information on this website if you search 'Economy 7'
Meters may require to be replaced!

Not quite sure where you are getting this information from but I do not think it can be correct. I have just signed up to a 2 year fixed deal with EDF on their April 2026 E7 tariff.

Are you getting confused with the RTS switch off?