Storage heaters & Economy 7 concerns - advice needed

dunstonh

Hi, I'm not sure if you are aware but the Economy 7 tariff is to be discontinued altogether from June 2025. 

Just adding that there is absolutely no truth in that at all.  And in reality, TOU tariffs are on the increase.   You can get all sorts of variations nowadays.    Like others, I suspect you have read something about RTS, but that is an old-fashioned way of triggering TOU tariffs.   Smart meters and previous-generation digital meters used timers.

DragonRider83

Thanks for all the replies so far. There's come conflicting advice, but also some that makes sense. Our main priorities are to keep bills low, complicated equipment minimal, and control high.

In case we did decide to get rid of the storage heaters and just go onto a normal tariff, can anyone give me a rough idea of what an average electricity bill would be for a single, older person in a modern (built 1999), well-insulated, mid-floor, one-bedroom flat, on the basis that it's only using electricity? If it helps, this is in Berkshire. It would just help us decide whether this would be a financially viable option. I've searched online, but the only averages I can find are on the basis that someone is using both gas and electricity, rather than solely electricity.

Scot_39

Re costs theirs an excellent comparison done by a user @QrizB linked from his posts footer.

Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

You might want to read back on some history, but it's a good start point.

Most people would say your plan is only likely to increase bills - we see regular posts from those regretting replacing NSH E7 combinations - with standard panels on SR and staying on an E7 like tariff with higher peak rate only amplifies the day cost problem.

Like others if the old Credas a problem - their more modern tsre or sister company dimpley quantum hhr (or their equivalents from other brands) might be needed.

And I'd love to know where the idea that E7 is disappearing anytime soon comes from. Like a few definitive references from Ofgem or suppliers. Its likely confusion with RTS off peak tariff metering.

DragonRider83

Scot_39 said:

Re costs theirs an excellent comparison done by a user @QrizB linked from his posts footer.

Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

You might want to read back on some history, but it's a good start point.

Most people would say your plan is only likely to increase bills - we see regular posts from those regretting replacing NSH E7 combinations - with standard panels on SR and staying on an E7 like tariff with higher peak rate only amplifies the day cost problem.

Like others if the old Credas a problem - their more modern tsre or sister company dimpley quantum hhr (or their equivalents from other brands) might be needed.

And I'd love to know where the idea that E7 is disappearing anytime soon comes from. Like a few definitive references from Ofgem or suppliers. Its likely confusion with RTS off peak tariff metering.

Thanks, but I wasn't suggesting we would replace the storage heaters with electric ones and remain on an E7 tariff. What we were considering was replacing the storage heaters and coming OFF the E7 tariff to a normal one, so there would be no peak/off peak times. I agree that  having electric heating and an E7 style tariff would be a terrible idea!

BarelySentientAI

DragonRider83 said:

Thanks for all the replies so far. There's come conflicting advice, but also some that makes sense. Our main priorities are to keep bills low, complicated equipment minimal, and control high.

In case we did decide to get rid of the storage heaters and just go onto a normal tariff, can anyone give me a rough idea of what an average electricity bill would be for a single, older person in a modern (built 1999), well-insulated, mid-floor, one-bedroom flat, on the basis that it's only using electricity? If it helps, this is in Berkshire. It would just help us decide whether this would be a financially viable option. I've searched online, but the only averages I can find are on the basis that someone is using both gas and electricity, rather than solely electricity.

Nobody can tell you that.  There is so much difference between different people's usage that what anyone else uses is more likely to be misleading than helpful.

You'll have to work it out for yourself.  Find the power use of each appliance, decide how long it would be on for and at what time of day, then multiply by the appropriate cost (flat v peak v off-peak).  That tells you the bill and which tariff would be better.

Swipe

I really don't see what the problem is with the current setup in a well-insulated mid floor 1999 era flat. If you can secure a fix mid summer with a night rate close to 10p it really won't cost very much at all. Using approx 6000kWh, with 70% at cheap rate it's going to cost less than £100 a month averaged over a year.

Spoonie_Turtle

DragonRider83 said:

Thanks for all the replies so far. There's come conflicting advice, but also some that makes sense. Our main priorities are to keep bills low, complicated equipment minimal, and control high.

In case we did decide to get rid of the storage heaters and just go onto a normal tariff, can anyone give me a rough idea of what an average electricity bill would be for a single, older person in a modern (built 1999), well-insulated, mid-floor, one-bedroom flat, on the basis that it's only using electricity? If it helps, this is in Berkshire. It would just help us decide whether this would be a financially viable option. I've searched online, but the only averages I can find are on the basis that someone is using both gas and electricity, rather than solely electricity.

Almost certainly still more expensive than Economy 7.  Most people's main energy usage is on their hot water and heating, so although your mother won't use much overnight, come winter she will (or should, to use the storage heaters properly) and that will likely be the bulk of her energy usage for the year. 
Things like lighting, TV and computer do add up but they shouldn't be power guzzlers like heating is.  And washing machine once a week is likely to be maybe 2kWh max if she puts it on a high temperature, more realistically probably 1-1.5kWh if on a moderate temperature (30 or 40℃).

There is an Ofgem 'typical' usage for all-electric which is 4200kWh/year, but nobody knows how that compares to what your mother's usage will be.  Unfortunately the only way to find out is to see, after a year, what her usage actually has been (and bear in mind whether that year's winter was warmer/cooler/average).

It might also be possible - depending on the meter setup and the wiring for the circuits - to be on single rate over summer then switch back to Economy 7 for the cooler months, BUT absolutely don't do anything until you know for sure that would be possible.  The worst thing would be for her to be stuck on the more expensive tariff over winter when she needs to be keeping warm.

TheElectricCow

DragonRider83 said:

Thanks for all the replies so far. There's come conflicting advice, but also some that makes sense. Our main priorities are to keep bills low, complicated equipment minimal, and control high.

What you’ve described here would be best achieved by keeping E7 and fitting modern High Heat Retention storage heaters (such as Dimplex quantum heaters for example, but there’s a few options out there) - If you intend to heat and supply hot water to a property regularly a single rate tariff is almost certainly going to work out considerably more expensive than staying with E7.

New storage heaters may not be the simplest to set up, but once configured for your mother’s needs they’ll allow very good control and will largely manage themselves to always ensure her home is at the right temperature without drawing more energy than needed. These are designed to hold heat in much longer to avoid getting overly hot at night or cool in the evenings, and should the space get too cold they can also be set to produce additional heat during peak rate hours without needing another plug in heater.

For the hot water use of someone taking baths multiple times per week you really do want to keep the E7, and if necessary upgrade the hot water tank (i.e. replace with a larger and/or better insulate it if it’s not storing enough hot water). Hot baths need a lot of hot water, and that usage alone may well account for more than the break even point of keeping the E7 tariff.

In my case an hour of off-peak hot water heating per day would be enough to keep Economy 7 cheaper than a single rate tariff. If I was having two baths per week I would want 2-3 times more hot water than that, which would come at a huge additional expense if I was on a single rate. 

Remember that whatever you want to heat up, you can buy around twice as much energy  overnight on Economy 7 for the same price of that energy on a single rate.

bob2302

DragonRider83 said:

The problem is, we have done some research and really don't think that storage heaters Economy 7 would suit her. I stayed in an AirBnB which had storage heaters over Christmas and it was awful - we boiled to death in the middle of the night and froze all evening,

Did you actively manage them, turning down the output to the minimum at night.

GibbsRule_No3.

I would recommend the Dimplex Quantum NSHs. My housing association installed them in my one bedroom bungalow last year. They installed four but I don’t use the one in the kitchen. I also like a cold bedroom but with the new QDs I can have them on for an hour in the evening and morning, just to take the chill/damp out of the room. Living room has two, due to the smaller one really being in an open hall, really a crossing between front door and kitchen door but no door on the living room (not explained that very well!) I have those on a “Out All Day” setting 2 hours morning and 5 at night, even when I am home all day, it is still warm enough but there is an “All Day” setting if your mother needs it, my 92 year old neighbour has that setting. While they do heat overnight on the E7, they do not lose the heat like the old NSHs did, so remain working all day. They are “smart” and learn the persons usage and seem to adapt themselves. At the same time they were installed I had to have a new meter with an IHD and it was noticeable that as the weather changed, without me doing anything to the QD settings the amount of electricity I used per day went down on the IH Display.  My hot water immersion heater is on the same setting all year round. Works out at roughly £6.00 a day during winter and at present £2.00. I do have led bulbs in most lights except a fluorescent in the kitchen and bathroom.