Widowed parents backpayments and receiving benefits

marcia_

Dorothys_slipper said:

I did read it. The legislation is new meaning people widowed from 2001 could now make a back dated claim. My question was if you were receiving benefits (child tax credit, income support or working tax credit) prior to 2017, when the law changed, would this be taken out of an entitlement? At no point did I ask to keep being told "You're not entitled". I am within my rights to appeal. I am also entitled to ask a question on this forum. If you don't have the answer there's no need to comment. 

 You need to realise how a public forum works. 

 Anyone can reply to any post with whatever that want, even disagree with you so long as its within forum rules. 

 

 Discussing benefits policy is against forum rules. 

kaMelo

Dorothys_slipper said:

Hello. Sorry another query on this but I can't find out any information. I have read that if you do qualify for backdated payments (you weren't married to your partner but now the law has changed) and you receive benefits, then they can deduct that from the backdated payments. Does anyone know if that is if you were in receipt of benefit from 2017 (when the law changed), or is it if you received benefits (such as income support, child benefit or working tax credit) at any period in your life, for example 2005-2007? It is all so confusing.

To answer your original point, yes receiving backdated WPA could (and probably would) affect other income related benefits for the entire period covered by the backdated WPA possibly leading to overpayments of other benefits. A non exhaustive list of benefits affected, income support, incapacity benefit, income related ESA and JSA, carers allowance, tax credits and UC. WPA is also a taxable benefit so a recipient of backdated WPA could also have a significant tax bill to pay.

On your own case you still seem to misunderstand what actually changed and somehow believe that because you cohabited with a new partner when you weren't eligible should somehow now be ignored that the law has changed and you weren't living with anyone at that time. That would put you in an advantageous position compared to a married couple, the law change was about removing discrimination, not creating it.

For what it's worth I think introducing legislation and applying it retrospectively is a terrible idea and opens up a whole can of worms, however it's what we have got, Given that they are doing so then I think you should probably have qualified for payments between the date of losing your partner and when you started to live with a new partner, that would mean equality with a married couple in a similar situation. I would imagine however trying to legislate accordingly and then validate all those claims would be an absolute nightmare.

sheramber

Dorothys_slipper said:

sheramber said:

Dorothys_slipper said:

I'm unsure on the reason for the forum if it's not for asking question like this? I'm curious if anyone actually knows the answer? I was told on the phone that I can appeal if I want to. I'm just wondering if it's worth it? Some people seem to be quite happy to gloat "you don't qualify", when I'm actually discussing a bereavement benefit. 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/backdated-payments-for-widowed-parents-allowance

"This guidance was withdrawn on 9th February 2024". It's all as clear as mud and has given false hope to many widowed parents that should have been entitled the first time.

The guidance is withdrawn beacusen it is out date  fir new claims 

BUT SCROLL DOWN

How benefits affect the amount of WPA you will receive

Your backdated payment may be lower if you got any of the following benefits while you were eligible for WPA:

• Income Support

• Incapacity Benefit

• Jobseeker’s Allowance

• Carer’s Allowance

• Employment and Support Allowance

• Universal Credit

If you got Universal Credit while you were eligible for WPA, you may have been overpaid. This means you might need to pay back some money. You must report your backdated WPA payment via your Universal Credit journal.

Dorothys_slipper

poppy12345 said:

Dorothys_slipper said:

poppy12345 said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/backdated-payments-for-widowed-parents-allowance

"This guidance was withdrawn on 9tj February 2024". 

Read further down and it answers the question about affecting other benefits, which is what you asked.

How benefits affect the amount of WPA you will receive

Your backdated payment may be lower if you got any of the following benefits while you were eligible for WPA:

• Income Support

• Incapacity Benefit

• Jobseeker’s Allowance

• Carer’s Allowance

• Employment and Support Allowance

• Universal Credit

If you got Universal Credit while you were eligible for WPA, you may have been overpaid. This means you might need to pay back some money. You must report your backdated WPA payment via your Universal Credit journal.

How backdated WPA payments affect other benefits you claim

You must report changes that affect other benefits when you get your backdated payment.

If you get Working Tax Credit or Child Tax Credit, your backdated payment may affect how much you get. It will only affect your tax credit payments for the year you receive the backdated payment.

Some other benefits have a limit on how much money you can:

• earn or get as regular income

• have in savings and capital

Your backdated payment will not count towards your income limit. It will count towards your savings and capital limit if you have any money left over after one year. Benefits affected include:

• Universal Credit
• Housing Benefit
• Pension Credit
• Income Support
• Employment and Support Allowance
• Jobseeker’s Allowance

How backdated WPA payments affect your taxes

You may need to pay Income Tax on your backdated payment.

If you pay tax through Pay As You Earn (PAYE), any money you owe will be taken from your other income automatically.

If you pay tax through Self Assessment (for example, if you’re self-employed) you need to declare your backdated WPA payment.

You must either:

• report it on your self-assessment tax return

• contact HMRC to include it on previous tax returns

Thank you. I just can't understand if that means from when I was entitled when my partner died (when I wasn't eligible but would be now) or after 2017, which is when it would be paid from. Its confusing because they don't count before 2017 in regards of paying out but do in regards to entitlement? What a minefield. 

Dorothys_slipper

marcia_ said:

Dorothys_slipper said:

I did read it. The legislation is new meaning people widowed from 2001 could now make a back dated claim. My question was if you were receiving benefits (child tax credit, income support or working tax credit) prior to 2017, when the law changed, would this be taken out of an entitlement? At no point did I ask to keep being told "You're not entitled". I am within my rights to appeal. I am also entitled to ask a question on this forum. If you don't have the answer there's no need to comment. 

 You need to realise how a public forum works. 

 Anyone can reply to any post with whatever that want, even disagree with you so long as its within forum rules. 

 

 Discussing benefits policy is against forum rules. 

Thank you. I'm just trying to understand and was hoping this forum could help. No one seems to know, even the people making the rules. 

Dorothys_slipper

kaMelo said:

Dorothys_slipper said:

Hello. Sorry another query on this but I can't find out any information. I have read that if you do qualify for backdated payments (you weren't married to your partner but now the law has changed) and you receive benefits, then they can deduct that from the backdated payments. Does anyone know if that is if you were in receipt of benefit from 2017 (when the law changed), or is it if you received benefits (such as income support, child benefit or working tax credit) at any period in your life, for example 2005-2007? It is all so confusing.

To answer your original point, yes receiving backdated WPA could (and probably would) affect other income related benefits for the entire period covered by the backdated WPA possibly leading to overpayments of other benefits. A non exhaustive list of benefits affected, income support, incapacity benefit, income related ESA and JSA, carers allowance, tax credits and UC. WPA is also a taxable benefit so a recipient of backdated WPA could also have a significant tax bill to pay.

On your own case you still seem to misunderstand what actually changed and somehow believe that because you cohabited with a new partner when you weren't eligible should somehow now be ignored that the law has changed and you weren't living with anyone at that time. That would put you in an advantageous position compared to a married couple, the law change was about removing discrimination, not creating it.

For what it's worth I think introducing legislation and applying it retrospectively is a terrible idea and opens up a whole can of worms, however it's what we have got, Given that they are doing so then I think you should probably have qualified for payments between the date of losing your partner and when you started to live with a new partner, that would mean equality with a married couple in a similar situation. I would imagine however trying to legislate accordingly and then validate all those claims would be an absolute nightmare.

Thank you. I do agree with you. It seems a slap in the face to literally be told your relationship was nothing, then give a glimmer of hope. They should have made it completely clear before hand. 

Dorothys_slipper

poppy12345 said:

What do you mean "no one seems to know?" you were living with someone else after your partner died so you're not entitled. Many members have advised you so many times. 

As I've said so many times, I was not entitled to the benefit, so living with someone new made no difference. Since the law changed and widowed parents could apply for backpayments, only last year, the fact I lived with someone is being judged retrospectively, when if wasn't relevant to me at the time. Its like changing a speeding limit from 50 to 30 miles per hour, then finding all the people that previous drove at 50 miles per hour and penalising them for speeding. It might sound daft but that's what it is. The rules changed only recently. It isn't clear cut and has led to a lot of heartache. If we'd have been married I could have received widowed payments until my child was 18. I might not even have moved on with a new partner. With this new change,  at the very most I was hoping for 2 years worth, to help my daughter with uni. I think I'm entitled to be upset, especially being told "we don't know if you're entitled or not" on the phone for 9 months. I was told to appeal it. I'm still waiting for my letter so I can. Anyway, this forum is not about policy. I was hoping for clarity on my question to see whether it's actually worth the effort. Unless you know the answers to my questions, or are in the same position, there's a literally no need to comment. Its about a bereavement policy, for losing a partner. There's literally no need to be so harsh about something so emotive. Thank you for the answers to my questions. 

poppy12345

Dorothys_slipper said:

poppy12345 said:

What do you mean "no one seems to know?" you were living with someone else after your partner died so you're not entitled. Many members have advised you so many times. 

 I was hoping for clarity on my question to see whether it's actually worth the effort. Unless you know the answers to my questions, or are in the same position, there's a literally no need to comment. Its about a bereavement policy, for losing a partner. There's literally no need to be so harsh about something so emotive. Thank you for the answers to my questions. 

I"m not being harsh at all, I'm just advising you of the rules in the same way many others have done. I advised you that because you lived with someone else after your partner died then it means there's no entitlement and for this reason there's nothing to appeal. All you can do is contact your local MP, which you said you've already done. 

kaMelo

Dorothys_slipper said:

poppy12345 said:

What do you mean "no one seems to know?" you were living with someone else after your partner died so you're not entitled. Many members have advised you so many times. 

As I've said so many times, I was not entitled to the benefit, so living with someone new made no difference. Since the law changed and widowed parents could apply for backpayments, only last year, the fact I lived with someone is being judged retrospectively, when if wasn't relevant to me at the time. Its like changing a speeding limit from 50 to 30 miles per hour, then finding all the people that previous drove at 50 miles per hour and penalising them for speeding. It might sound daft but that's what it is. The rules changed only recently. It isn't clear cut and has led to a lot of heartache. If we'd have been married I could have received widowed payments until my child was 18. I might not even have moved on with a new partner. With this new change,  at the very most I was hoping for 2 years worth, to help my daughter with uni. I think I'm entitled to be upset, especially being told "we don't know if you're entitled or not" on the phone for 9 months. I was told to appeal it. I'm still waiting for my letter so I can. Anyway, this forum is not about policy. I was hoping for clarity on my question to see whether it's actually worth the effort. Unless you know the answers to my questions, or are in the same position, there's a literally no need to comment. Its about a bereavement policy, for losing a partner. There's literally no need to be so harsh about something so emotive. Thank you for the answers to my questions. 

The retrospective application of the legislation change has to apply to all eligibility criteria. What you are seemingly wanting is for eligibility over losing a partner to count retrospectively whilst ignoring other criteria altogether or only wanting it to apply from the date the legislation changed on 30th August 2018. You can't have it both ways.

A married couple in the same scenario as you would have qualified for payments between 2004 (when you lost your partner) and 2014 (when you moved in with someone else)  Once eligibility ceases it does not restart.
.
Your own scenario meant that you were not eligible at the time. After the legislation change you were eligible to claim and backdate that claim to the date of losing your partner, but another important eligibility criteria was that you had to still meet all the eligibility criteria on the date it changed, August 30th 2018.  You are suggesting that only your status from the date the legislation changed should be relevant and to ignore anything before that because you may have made different decisions if you'd known the law would change.  I just don't think that's a credible position to take.

Dorothys_slipper

kaMelo said:

Dorothys_slipper said:

poppy12345 said:

What do you mean "no one seems to know?" you were living with someone else after your partner died so you're not entitled. Many members have advised you so many times. 

As I've said so many times, I was not entitled to the benefit, so living with someone new made no difference. Since the law changed and widowed parents could apply for backpayments, only last year, the fact I lived with someone is being judged retrospectively, when if wasn't relevant to me at the time. Its like changing a speeding limit from 50 to 30 miles per hour, then finding all the people that previous drove at 50 miles per hour and penalising them for speeding. It might sound daft but that's what it is. The rules changed only recently. It isn't clear cut and has led to a lot of heartache. If we'd have been married I could have received widowed payments until my child was 18. I might not even have moved on with a new partner. With this new change,  at the very most I was hoping for 2 years worth, to help my daughter with uni. I think I'm entitled to be upset, especially being told "we don't know if you're entitled or not" on the phone for 9 months. I was told to appeal it. I'm still waiting for my letter so I can. Anyway, this forum is not about policy. I was hoping for clarity on my question to see whether it's actually worth the effort. Unless you know the answers to my questions, or are in the same position, there's a literally no need to comment. Its about a bereavement policy, for losing a partner. There's literally no need to be so harsh about something so emotive. Thank you for the answers to my questions. 

The retrospective application of the legislation change has to apply to all eligibility criteria. What you are seemingly wanting is for eligibility over losing a partner to count retrospectively whilst ignoring other criteria altogether or only wanting it to apply from the date the legislation changed on 30th August 2018. You can't have it both ways.

A married couple in the same scenario as you would have qualified for payments between 2004 (when you lost your partner) and 2014 (when you moved in with someone else)  Once eligibility ceases it does not restart.
.
Your own scenario meant that you were not eligible at the time. After the legislation change you were eligible to claim and backdate that claim to the date of losing your partner, but another important eligibility criteria was that you had to still meet all the eligibility criteria on the date it changed, August 30th 2018.  You are suggesting that only your status from the date the legislation changed should be relevant and to ignore anything before that because you may have made different decisions if you'd known the law would change.  I just don't think that's a credible position to take.

Thank you. I agree with what you have said. The eligibility is not backdated until the date of losing your partner though. Its only from when the law changed in 2017. That's my frustration. Surely the retrospective payment should cover from when I lost my partner until I lived with my new partner OR looked at my circumstances (still widowed and on my own) from when the law changed in 2017 and when payments would be from. It seems unfair to only pay from 2017 but yet take all your circumstances from before that into account. I just wish it had been clearer when I'd applied. It really wasn't and I've seen other posts on here from others that feel the same.