Tesla Developments

1961Nick

Netexporter said:

The problem with the early Leaves was the inadequate thermal management of the battery. And 40 to 50 miles range is still perfectly adequate for a local runaround, provided you can charge it at home.

The reality is that when the leaf battery is that degraded the used value is so low that many of them are broken for parts - the main one being the battery modules which are used for domestic storage & projects.

Magnitio

Getting back to Tesla:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-walks-back-supercharger-team-layoffs-rehires-executive/

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

Netexporter said:

The problem with the early Leaves was the inadequate thermal management of the battery. And 40 to 50 miles range is still perfectly adequate for a local runaround, provided you can charge it at home.

The reality is that when the leaf battery is that degraded the used value is so low that many of them are broken for parts - the main one being the battery modules which are used for domestic storage & projects.

It's also possible to replace the 24kWh with a new one (or from a scrapped vehicle), can also fit a 30kWh or 40kWh pack.

I'd like to think that this option will remain, but I don't know if Nissan will keep manufacturing packs, nor if the packs will get cheaper, as the technology may not get updated? Not sure, but at least there's the option for now.

Certainly not ideal, v's a good longer lasting battery, but the high degradation lowers the SH value, which in turn, might help make a battery replacement more economical for somebody interested in such a project.

Martyn1981

EricMears said:

Martyn1981 said:

Also need to be careful using those 60k to 110k kilometre figures for the breakeven, which seem a bit dubious.

Transport and the Environment suggest a figure for a coal heavy grid of 70k km, so most of Europe will be much lower. Though China, at the moment has estimates as high as120k km.

In the US, the current estimate is around 41k km, with a 2030 estimate of 21k km.

Ken's (or MIT's ?)  6 fold spread might stem from comparing the 1980 Chinese figures with the 2030 USA ones ?

Hi Eric, saw this news today, and of course thought of you (very timely). It would seem to suggest a much smaller (more reasonable?) spread of about 1.5 (EU grid v's China) to 2.5 for low carbon European country(ies). But I may be misunderstanding it, and/or jumping to conclusions.

An Industrial Blueprint For Batteries In Europe

EricMears

Martyn1981 said:

EricMears said:

Ken's (or MIT's ?)  6 fold spread might stem from comparing the 1980 Chinese figures with the 2030 USA ones ?

Hi Eric, saw this news today, and of course thought of you (very timely). It would seem to suggest a much smaller (more reasonable?) spread of about 1.5 (EU grid v's China) to 2.5 for low carbon European country(ies). But I may be misunderstanding it, and/or jumping to conclusions.

That sounds much more likely !  Some time ago,  all Chinese power came from 'dirty' coal plants but they're rapidly being replaced by 'less dirty' ones and supplemented with lots of RE.  The American forecasts of the 2030 position shouldn't be confused with actual present day conditions.  You might as well say that by 2030 UK electricity will be "too cheap to meter" as we expect to have developed fusion by then (just like we've been expecting it now for over half a century    )

michaels

1961Nick said:

Netexporter said:

The problem with the early Leaves was the inadequate thermal management of the battery. And 40 to 50 miles range is still perfectly adequate for a local runaround, provided you can charge it at home.

The reality is that when the leaf battery is that degraded the used value is so low that many of them are broken for parts - the main one being the battery modules which are used for domestic storage & projects.

I really don't see this degradation issue - yes for the US where temperatures are more extreme but most UK cars still seem to have at least 60% of their new range.  Seems to be an urban myth.

Grumpy_chap

1961Nick said:

Netexporter said:

The problem with the early Leaves was the inadequate thermal management of the battery. And 40 to 50 miles range is still perfectly adequate for a local runaround, provided you can charge it at home.

The reality is that when the leaf battery is that degraded the used value is so low that many of them are broken for parts - the main one being the battery modules which are used for domestic storage & projects.

There was a thread in the Motoring area of this forum a little while back where someone had seen a Leaf for sale with an absurdly low range and considering the option of the car as a home battery but the added benefit that they had a car they could use as well for some very local journeys.  IIRC, the discussion reached a conclusion that a 6-mile range was the minimum that could be tolerated as that would cover the school run and the supermarket for an urban / suburban dweller.

Reed_Richards

Magnitio said:

Getting back to Tesla:

.....

There is a general thread on EVs here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6367380/ev-discussion-thread#latest .  I started this thread for those forumites with a specific interest in Tesla, of which there seem to be quite a few, so they could discuss issues specific to Tesla rather than other makes of EV or general EV issues.  I did this for my own benefit, as I have an interest in EVs but no particular interest in Tesla.  My idea does not seem to be working very well, as the temptation towards being drawn into a Heated Debate on general issues surrounding EVs seems to be too great.

EricMears

Reed_Richards said:

Magnitio said:

Getting back to Tesla:

.....

There is a general thread on EVs here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6367380/ev-discussion-thread#latest .  I started this thread for those forumites with a specific interest in Tesla, of which there seem to be quite a few, so they could discuss issues specific to Tesla rather than other makes of EV or general EV issues.  I did this for my own benefit, as I have an interest in EVs but no particular interest in Tesla.  My idea does not seem to be working very well, as the temptation towards being drawn into a Heated Debate on general issues surrounding EVs seems to be too great.

Afraid the chances of any topic on this or any other forum not wandering off the intended subject are virtually nil.!

JKenH

Somewhat damning report from Reuters on issues with Tesla fleet buyers. Just a couple of quotes below. 

Tesla doing damage-control, discounts for European fleet buyers

A top executive at a large European car-leasing firm, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not have permission to comment publicly on Tesla, said that, starting in mid-2023, Tesla offered unofficial end-of-quarter discounts on its Model 3 and Model Y by up to 2,000 euros ($2,134) for leasing-company purchases, if those vehicles were in stock.

Since late last year, he said, those discounts have been available all the time.

Lorna McAtear, fleet manager at UK energy firm National Grid, described much rockier relations with Tesla. She’s been compiling data on repair costs and found Tesla’s to be triple the industry average.

Other problems, McAtear said, include a cumbersome ordering system and cars arriving with defects. For instance, she said, Tesla delivered a number of EVs with warped windshields and declined to fix them under warranty.

National Grid has more than 500 Teslas in its company-car fleet of 2,000 vehicles. McAtear said she has planned to propose her company drop Tesla from its fleet unless the problems are addressed. Meanwhile, Tesla’s chief Chinese rival, BYD, is starting to deliver cars to National Grid.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-doing-damage-control-discounts-european-fleet-buyers-2024-05-20/