PIP appeal rejected what now?

olderandwilder

I have photos of everything plus hard copies of everything too.

olderandwilder

Among the other reasons for rejection was that I can manage my meds without help.

The truth: I accidentally took an overdose recently because I mixed up my antidepressant and my melatonin (which I take 5 of) and had to go to a and e. The pills don't even look alike. I also frequently take 2 doses or forget to take them at all. I take 8 pills every night (plus the melatonin, plus another med that I only take occassionally). Some should be taken in the morning but i forget so the dr said I could take them all at once.

I also have an accommodation to order my meds by email because I was having so much trouble keeping on top of them.

olderandwilder

Also, (sorry) is there a charity I can go to for help submitting this? The local charities only get involved if they helped fill in the original application, and the CAB office was too overwhelming and I ran away last time I tried to sit in there. 🙄 

olderandwilder

Sorry. Last thing (and thank you so much for your help.) 

I was too overwhelmed by the form to fill it in. I got a call from the dwp offering to ask me some questions and they could fill it in for me. She did so - didn't ask me for evidence, looking back seemed to be fishing for more info than is required on the form etc (which is why they know I have a masters degree and used to home ed my kids etc.) 

I am quite vulnerable to manipulation and coercion, and the whole thing leaves a bad taste.

I never got a follow up assessment call. That was it - that call where they said they could help with the form then tricked me - eg she called back for clarification on whether i take adhd meds. I said no because it's an 8 year wait to get help for adhd here and the gp took my stimulants away because of my anxiety (menopause related) but I couldn't see a psych for an alternative so I'm screwed. I get annual reviews while I'm waiting and I'm on 'red' on their triage system 'causing most severe harm'.

I said all this but one of the rejection points was 'not on adhd meds therefore adhd is not a factor.'

Muttleythefrog

It is confusing why they haven't explained their MR (Mandatory reconsideration) decision... often usually it will look very similar to original decision if they haven't changed it. There should be 2 copies of it however. 

They've given a lot of underlying circumstantial facts (some possibly untrue) to justify selection of non scoring descriptors. You're not alone in this... in my original application for PIP they used the fact I had attended ordinary school and studied at university plus admitted my mathematical skills were exceptional to score me zero on some activities.... the fact that I'd attended such education decades earlier when they expect the claimant to use recent evidence is mind boggling. Eventually I overcame their failings in later reviews of existing award to get point scoring descriptors appropriately awarded. So they seem to have done similar for you except you have not been given an award.

An appeal tribunal will look to obtain and assess facts and evidence for itself including from you and the papers submitted from the DWP and you. Crucially.... focus needs to shift... to explaining how you meet various descriptors by describing and giving examples of your difficulties for each relevant activity. Try not to get bogged down into a war over what the DWP has gathered as facts (or fake facts) and used to justify their decision... because an appeal tribunal may consider such facts as they see relevant and I rather suspect they'll be much less likely to draw wild extrapolations. They typically take a far more serious look at the broad evidence and applying it to actual law.

My concern here is given your difficulties I would be inclined to suggest you get support with making your appeal submission.. but it's also clear you struggle with getting help including in practical terms.... so this is difficult. You clearly have a good level of intellectual function (i.e. I believe you have the capacities to make a good technical appeal) and in my mind I'm thinking with good reference material such as on the CAB website you may be able to do a decent job yourself if focussed correctly... but I'm not sure.

I may come back to add to my post later if I have time... but I think an appeal is a sensible course of action. But focus is key on what is important to get award. It's easy to get drawn into a debate over the failings of the DWP because you want to correct nonsense... trust me I've been there.... but present a positive case for what descriptors apply rather than be distracted by that.  

olderandwilder

That's extremely helpful. Thank you.

Yes, there were 2 copies and both just said I didn't meet the criteria except for the 4 points already allocated - not a single explanation.

I'll try to focus on the descriptors and reach out to see if I can find help online. The shame of having run away from CAB once already isn't helping with the thought of trying again. 😳 But I'll find a way if that's what it takes. 

Muttleythefrog

olderandwilder said:

That's extremely helpful. Thank you.

Yes, there were 2 copies and both just said I didn't meet the criteria except for the 4 points already allocated - not a single explanation.

I'll try to focus on the descriptors and reach out to see if I can find help online. The shame of having run away from CAB once already isn't helping with the thought of trying again. 😳 But I'll find a way if that's what it takes. 

It's hard to understand why they felt they didn't need to explain their decision in the MR.. in my mind I'm wondering if they were having a lazy day or felt you offered no new information to challenge their decision. Others with experience of seeing MR decisions may offer more insight but without sight of your MR request and papers hard to otherwise explain. They can be administratively incompetent... I recently asked for a MR in respect of my PIP award length and they sent me a decision letter that made no sense and turned out to have incorrectly been sent. When they sent the correct one where they decided to agree with my request to extend award longer there was still a load of nonsense/omissions in the decision letter suggesting a complete failure to properly edit some standard document for my actual case.

 Think may already have been linked but if not... this is a good start 
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/

marcia_

olderandwilder said:

Sorry. Last thing (and thank you so much for your help.) 

I was too overwhelmed by the form to fill it in. I got a call from the dwp offering to ask me some questions and they could fill it in for me. She did so - didn't ask me for evidence, looking back seemed to be fishing for more info than is required on the form etc (which is why they know I have a masters degree and used to home ed my kids etc.) 

I am quite vulnerable to manipulation and coercion, and the whole thing leaves a bad taste.

I never got a follow up assessment call. That was it - that call where they said they could help with the form then tricked me - eg she called back for clarification on whether i take adhd meds. I said no because it's an 8 year wait to get help for adhd here and the gp took my stimulants away because of my anxiety (menopause related) but I couldn't see a psych for an alternative so I'm screwed. I get annual reviews while I'm waiting and I'm on 'red' on their triage system 'causing most severe harm'.

I said all this but one of the rejection points was 'not on adhd meds therefore adhd is not a factor.'

 I do not think that is manipulation. It's being thorough. 

 If it doesn't come up in your form it will come up in your face to face appointment where they ask about work, how you spend your time etc 

olderandwilder

Thank you again. 😃

elsien

Asperger_Service_PIP_Guide_Sept_2016.pdf (pinpoint-cambs.org.uk)  Slightly older but might help you to get your head around the descriptors in a way relevant to you. I'll post more if I can remember which organisation produced them. 

This is a guide for PIP and mental health. You may well find some similarities with your ADHD etc with regards to planning, concentration etc.

How to fill in the PIP form : Mental Health & Money Advice (mentalhealthandmoneyadvice.org)