PIP appeal rejected what now?

olderandwilder

My rejection letter doesn't even explain why. I got turned down with a list of reasons why the first time. I was able to point out that those reasons weren't correct (eg I'd completed a masters without help - but I gave evidence of all the help from DSA that i received plus it was 12 years ago and I'm claiming for an issue that only goes back 4 years.)

But instead of telling me why not this time, they just scored me 0 points on everything and didn't say why. 

I want to go to tribunal but how when I can't say what I'm challenging?

Also I was told I could start a new claim instead but it wouldn't be backdated, though it would be a lot less stressful than tribunal and my MH isn't great so that does appeal to me 

I don't know what to do and I only have 3 weeks to decide as the letter only got here today but it's dated a week ago

olderandwilder

I think i feel into one of their taps. I got a call out of the blue from a breezy chat girl who said she could fill in my application for me and I didn't understand a lot of her questions and i feel tricked

Muttleythefrog

Just clarifying here I hope. It sounds like you asked for a mandatory reconsideration and they kept their decision the same in effect that you did not meet any point scoring descriptors across all activities.

You are now able to appeal to an independent tribunal. 

Their decision should be explained in the letter they've sent. I imagine it will sound quite similar to that in the original decision... no?

You should also have a copy of their independent assessment company advice such as the assessment report if you had assessment in person or by phone as it sounds like could have happened. (it's not common for them not to seek opinion from an 'assessment company')

That assessment report or advice will probably be reflected in their decision explanation or at least reflect the decision. If not say so here.

Who was the 'breezy chat girl'.... was it a benefits adviser at Citizens' Advice or similar? Or was this a telephone assessment? It's confusing because you refer to help with form but that's not what an assessment company will do... but then you got the call unexpectedly which suggests it was an assessment or clarification by DWP about your claim.

I would have a good look at the criteria for PIP and what you submitted on your PIP2 form (or what someone else did with your help). Did you make a compelling case for applicable descriptors in relevant activities? 

Ultimately get your head together with all of the relevant paperwork. Try to get any supporting evidence and make a compelling appeal case. It's not uncommon for people to go to PIP appeals having received no award after reconsideration and even zero points... and succeed in getting an award. My fear is if you do make new claim you'll face the same issues and outcomes only to find yourself needing to appeal at which point you may regret having not done so before. You as such would not be challenging anything at appeal other than the DWP decision you don't have disablement applicable to PIP. The DWP will make its paperwork submission but your job at appeal is to detail how your disablements affect you and play out relevant to the PIP activities. The Tribunal are unlikely as such to take a line of finding how you can disagree with the decision but rather seek evidence for themselves that can justify their own.. they can decide what evidence they consider reliable to use in gaining their own opinion in relation to activities/descriptors... key evidence can come from the claimant themselves.

Oh and "Also I was told I could start a new claim instead but it wouldn't be backdated, though it would be a lot less stressful than tribunal and my MH isn't great so that does appeal to me " - I would generally disagree. I think claimants on balance probably find appeals less stressful than assessments... and the success rate at appeal tribunals is high.. they tend to look at all of the evidence and really listen to you to try to get things correct. The DWP and assessment companies are far less interested... and tend to try to process efficiently and be selective over evidence utilised.  But ultimately you know you better than anyone here. 

elsien

What descriptors do you think you should have scored points for? Did you keep a copy of your original application?

Spoonie_Turtle

olderandwilder said:

But instead of telling me why not this time, they just scored me 0 points on everything and didn't say why. 

I want to go to tribunal but how when I can't say what I'm challenging?

That's a more useful start than you might think though.  Scoring you 0 points tells you exactly which descriptors they've chosen - the ones that score 0 - so you now just have to focus on which descriptors you do meet and explaining why.

I don't know exactly how the appeal process works, what the deadlines are, but here's some info about the descriptors and how each activity is assessed in case you don't already know:
Overview, see also the PDFs linked within the page  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/how-decisions-are-made/
Long read, fairly comprehensive  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

tacpot12

I would recommend appealing. Applying again isn't likely to result in a different outcome, appealing probably will. The DWP lose 70% of all PIP appeals.

Make sure you do so with the time limit. As has been said above, all the orginal reasons for rejecting your application still stand. Get help to start the appeal.

olderandwilder

Thank you all. I only got 4 points in one descriptor but I need a lot of help in several different areas. 

If I am rejected at tribunal, would that prevent me from opening a new case at a later date?

poppy12345

olderandwilder said:

If I am rejected at tribunal, would that prevent me from opening a new case at a later date?

No. For the Tribunal make sure you request either to appear in person or have a telephone/video hearing, either of those will give the best chance of a decision in your favour. 

olderandwilder

Thank you! I think I have to do it, no matter how hard it gets. 

Muttleythefrog

olderandwilder said:

Thank you all. I only got 4 points in one descriptor but I need a lot of help in several different areas. 

If I am rejected at tribunal, would that prevent me from opening a new case at a later date?

If you got 4 points on one activity then " they just scored me 0 points on everything and didn't say why" wasn't true unless you are talking about the original decision versus reconsideration... makes me think other things said are not necessarily accurate.

The quality of advice you'll get will depend on the quality of information you provide. Remember we cannot see the documents and evidence you have...we don't know if you have 3 legs or terminal illness... we cannot know what calls you were engaged with pr what was said etc... other than what you tell us. And we have to assume what you tell us is true.

Getting 4 points is a big starting point... and would change my advice further to recommending appeal. The DWP  acknowledge you have disablements... those in turn may be explained by conditions you have giving leverage for logical arguments of other relevant disablements in similar activities...etc. It's half way to an award in one of the PIP components and a much better starting point than many who appeal and win. It is important that you come across as a credible source of evidence to the tribunal... so being consistent and factual is key...hence I am pointing to an inconsistency on the thread to highlight this point... if they believe you and you describe your problems relevantly then you've every chance of getting an accurate award to your circumstances. 

olderandwilder

I'm autistic. Despite being very articulate in some ways, I find social communication very difficult. I also have ADHD and PTSD. I managed okay until lockdown and the PTSD got out of hand.

I said I got turned down with a list of reasons why the first time. The appeal letter just gave me zeros for everything with no explanation. 

This was true, but what I meant was everything that I'd challenged. I retained the 4 points for communication.This is a good example of how communication trips me up and annoys other people who think I'm lying to them. 

The types of things they said when they rejected me:

They said: I did an MA without help so I don't need help.

Truth: I got a lot of help from the DSA, it was 12 years ago when I was managing okay, and I was on quite a high dose of ADHD meds back then which were taken away from me when I hit menopause, leaving me with no support for my ADHD. 

They said I homeschool my (also neurodivergent) kids so that proves I don't need help.

Truth: The kids were home educated (not any more) not school at home. We needed a lot of support to get this done as school couldn't accommodate them. It worked. They're thriving but some of the accommodations required include: 

• Later starts to events

• Group messages reminding us of upcoming events 

• Acceptance of autistic stimming 

• Providing quiet spaces

• Sharing the planning and organising load

• Sharing knowledges of things that help with (for example) sensory overload

• Sharing resources 

• Acceptance of the use of ear plugs and/or headphones 

• Allowing for high emotions 

• Allowing for individual needs (eg making sure I was always able to sit with my back to the wall)

• Sharing photos of venues to reduce stress on first visits

• Other parents stepping in to help when one of us needed a break

They said I can drive so that proves I don't need help. 

The truth: I said no one needs to help me with driving but I musunderstood the question. I imagined having someone change gears for me or help steering (!) This is how my autism shows itself. I also can't do even familiar journeys without support, which I outlined.

They said I was able to detail a complex history without support. 

The truth: I completely forgot to tell them I'm autistic!

They said I don't meet the criteria for overwhelming psychological distress.

The truth: I get flashbacks every day that can last for hours, espectially in the evenings causing me to lose about 35 hours per week trying to sleep, and preventing me from doing certain things.

There were several of these points in the first rejection, which I responded to clearly and with evidence.

The second rejection just said I don't meet the criteria. No details whatsoever.

So I don't know how to submit the tribunal application.

Do I just say, "See my mandatory reconsideration plus all the evidence I submitted with it?"