Return of furniture. Must I pay carriage?

bundly

Hello.

Apologies for the long post but I find it's better than annoying everyone by drip-feeding or obliging you to ask me questions, so here goes:

I am a disabled old age pensioner lady with a medical condition that has caused me to become very heavy especially in the hips and legs. (Through no fault of my own, I would add.) I can walk only with a Zimmer frame or crutches. Doctor's orders are that whenever I sit down I must have my legs raised to hip height, to help drain the enormous amount of fluid that has accumulated in my calves. Because of this over the last 20 years I have had three power recliner two-seater sofas, all bought online, all similar size and shape, and I've never had any problem with them, nor have I ever been told that sofas have a maximum user weight. I always raise the leg-rest. 

Current one is looking shabby so I bought a new one online from SCS for £2,000 + £100 delivery. Looks very similar to the last three. After a wait of four months it arrived today.

Soon as the delivery-men left I tried it out for comfort. When I pressed the button and extended the leg-rest fully, the whole sofa tipped up (frontwards). It was very scary for me and I only just saved myself from being thrown to the floor. I was left shaking with shock. The delivery-men had left some "how to care for your furniture" leaflets and reading one discovered that there is an upper user weight limit on this sofa, which I exceed by over 20kg. This is why it tips over forwards. 

I went back to the webpage I bought it from and went over it with a fine-toothed comb in case I missed a warning about the weight limit. Every dimension was listed but no maximum user-weight limit was mentioned.

I rang them and told them all the above and explained that, had I known it had a limit below my weight of course I would not have spent a whopping £2,000 on buying it. They said if a sofa or chair has a maximum user weight they don't display it in the specifications on the selling page! (How stupid is that?) They said I am too heavy for the sofa and that is why it will tip up if I use the leg rest. They said I can return it under the usual distance selling rules. They will collect in a week or two. Meanwhile I cannot use it and there is no other seating in my lounge.

They made me pay £100 for their delivery men to take it back. I don't think I should have to pay it, because their webpage failed to state that there is a maximum user weight. 

Who should pay the carriage?

eskbanker

My understanding is that you pay for the return if you're cancelling the order under distance selling provisions, provided they document this stance appropriately - this is specified in their terms at 1.2.8.e ("You will have to cover the cost of returning the products").

On the other hand, if you can make a case that the sofa is faulty or not as described, then they need to pick up the tab.

bundly

"if you can make a case that the sofa is faulty or not as described, then they need to pick up the tab"

Should I make the case in an email to them, do you think?

eskbanker

bundly said:

"if you can make a case that the sofa is faulty or not as described, then they need to pick up the tab"

Should I make the case in an email to them, do you think?

It's not so much about the channel but the strength of the argument....

Alderbank

bundly said:

Hello.

Apologies for the long post but I find it's better than annoying everyone by drip-feeding or obliging you to ask me questions, so here goes:

I am a disabled old age pensioner lady with a medical condition that has caused me to become very heavy especially in the hips and legs. (Through no fault of my own, I would add.) I can walk only with a Zimmer frame or crutches. Doctor's orders are that whenever I sit down I must have my legs raised to hip height, to help drain the enormous amount of fluid that has accumulated in my calves. Because of this over the last 20 years I have had three power recliner two-seater sofas, all bought online, all similar size and shape, and I've never had any problem with them, nor have I ever been told that sofas have a maximum user weight. I always raise the leg-rest. 

Current one is looking shabby so I bought a new one online from SCS for £2,000 + £100 delivery. Looks very similar to the last three. After a wait of four months it arrived today.

Soon as the delivery-men left I tried it out for comfort. When I pressed the button and extended the leg-rest fully, the whole sofa tipped up (frontwards). It was very scary for me and I only just saved myself from being thrown to the floor. I was left shaking with shock. The delivery-men had left some "how to care for your furniture" leaflets and reading one discovered that there is an upper user weight limit on this sofa, which I exceed by over 20kg. This is why it tips over forwards. 

I went back to the webpage I bought it from and went over it with a fine-toothed comb in case I missed a warning about the weight limit. Every dimension was listed but no maximum user-weight limit was mentioned.

I rang them and told them all the above and explained that, had I known it had a limit below my weight of course I would not have spent a whopping £2,000 on buying it. They said if a sofa or chair has a maximum user weight they don't display it in the specifications on the selling page! (How stupid is that?) They said I am too heavy for the sofa and that is why it will tip up if I use the leg rest. They said I can return it under the usual distance selling rules. They will collect in a week or two. Meanwhile I cannot use it and there is no other seating in my lounge.

They made me pay £100 for their delivery men to take it back. I don't think I should have to pay it, because their webpage failed to state that there is a maximum user weight. 

Who should pay the carriage?

I'm afraid you do .

There's no law to say they must say everything about the chair on their webpage, only that what they do say must be true.
They must also answer any questions truthfully if you ask them. Their answers would be binding.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure that the next one you buy you will ask if is suitable for (a bit more than) your weight.
Alternatively, if they say they don't know, you can say you will buy provided the chair is suitable for your weight. That stipulation, if they agree, then becomes one of the contract terms.

Since you still would like a new chair, perhaps you could negotiate with them to take it away when they deliver a different chair more suited to you?

Edited to add:
You say the ones you have bought over the years have all been similar size and shape.
I don't want to seem ungallant, but is it possible perhaps that you are no longer similar size and shape to what you once were?

bundly

I'm sure that the next one you buy you will ask if is suitable for (a bit more than) your weight.

Indeed I will. The thing is, as I said, I had no idea that sofas had weight limits. This is the fourth similar one I've bought and none of the earlier ones stipulated a weight limit either on the website or in the documents.

Since you still would like a new chair, perhaps you could negotiate with them to take it away when they deliver a different chair more suited to you? 

They said none of their sofas have a higher user weight limit than the one I bought so they cannot help me.

is it possible perhaps that you are no longer similar size and shape to what you once were?

Yes. I'm three stones lighter than I was when I last bought a sofa. It never tipped up even at my highest weight.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I wonder if it's a mislead omission under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations which would give the right to unwind, not sure what that means with the goods, involuntary bailee? 

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I wonder if it's a mislead omission under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations which would give the right to unwind, not sure what that means with the goods, involuntary bailee? 

Hasn't the OP already paid and had it removed?  

She uses the past tense saying "They made me pay £100..."  

FWIW I wouldn't normally expect a static piece of furniture to mention a maximum safe weight.

However, for a piece of furniture with moving electrical and mechanical parts - like a reclining chair etc - I would expect the maximum safe weight to be clearly stated if there is one.

If the seller knew there was a maximum limit but didn't mention it I think it might be a misleading omission - but I wouldn't really like to say.

No harm in the OP trying it?

bundly

Thank you Okell and Lunatic

Hasn't the OP already paid and had it removed?  She uses the past tense saying "They made me pay £100..." 

I rang them one hour after it was delivered and they made me pay £99 on c/c during the call before they would initiate the process of a return. They said it cannot be collected for a week or two. Meantime it's not safe for me to use it, and there is no other seating in the lounge as it's such a small room. 

I am going to ring them again and ask to speak to a manager, paraphrasing your words:

"I have now taken consumer advice and been told that if a piece of furniture has a maximum safe weight, by law it has to be clearly stated on the sales page. Particularly as you invite and encourage people to buy direct from your website without speaking to a salesperson.

SCS knew there was a maximum limit but didn't mention it on the page, which is legally known as a 'misleading omission' under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Therefore the sofa was missold and this is the fault of SCS not me, so you cannot charge me to take it back.

Also I feel it is unethical to make a disabled person wait weeks to have the sofa collected. My lounge is small and a sofa is the only seating, and I cannot use it. I therefore cannot even watch (my only) TV until the sofa is removed and my old one put back in."


 

bundly

Did a bit of googling.

"Misleading omissions(d)the commercial practice fails to identify its commercial intent, unless this is already apparent from the context, and as a result it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise."

"Traders must give information to consumers in a timely manner. It should be provided to assist the consumer in making an informed choice. Supplying information too late could constitute an omission. It is a breach of the Law to: omit material information".

They did not tell me it had a weight limit until the men had left and I read the leaflet.

DullGreyGuy

Ultimately any physical goods is going to have a maximum weight it can support. Most sofa's dont list it and its probably safe to assume that those up to the 99.9% will all have no problems however the worlds heaviest man was 635kg at his peak and I am sure some would have struggled with that. Some things, bar stools and office chairs most notably, do list a maximium weight sometimes and that seems reasonable when they can be as low as 100kg and so whilst still a lot is something where a material proportion of people are over the weight limit. 

I doubt the law states that its at Xkg that must start showing the limits and in my mind at least (as someone who can't sit on certain bar stools) there does become a transition point between the company having to say a sofa has a 500kg maximum per person weight limit and someone who is 500kg knowing they are an outlier and being responsible for asking the question if the weight limit isn't stated. 

What weight limit could the seat take?