Return of furniture. Must I pay carriage?

Okell

bundly said:

Thank you Okell and Lunatic

Hasn't the OP already paid and had it removed?  She uses the past tense saying "They made me pay £100..." 

I rang them one hour after it was delivered and they made me pay £99 on c/c during the call before they would initiate the process of a return. They said it cannot be collected for a week or two. Meantime it's not safe for me to use it, and there is no other seating in the lounge as it's such a small room. 

I am going to ring them again and ask to speak to a manager, paraphrasing your words:

"I have now taken consumer advice and been told that if a piece of furniture has a maximum safe weight, by law it has to be clearly stated on the sales page. Particularly as you invite and encourage people to buy direct from your website without speaking to a salesperson.

SCS knew there was a maximum limit but didn't mention it on the page, which is legally known as a 'misleading omission' under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Therefore the sofa was missold and this is the fault of SCS not me, so you cannot charge me to take it back.

Also I feel it is unethical to make a disabled person wait weeks to have the sofa collected. My lounge is small and a sofa is the only seating, and I cannot use it. I therefore cannot even watch (my only) TV until the sofa is removed and my old one put back in."


 

I wouldn't approach them along those lines just yet.  Hold fire.  [But read footnote 1 now]

As @DullGreyGuy has already suggested it isn't strictly true to say that "by law it has to be clearly stated" etc.

What the law does is to provide consumers with legal protection where, for example, they buy faulty goods or where they make a bad purchasing decision (ie make a transactional decision) because they've been given misleading information or the seller hasn't told them something that they should have done.

The question here is whether not telling you that the recliner had a maximum weight limit is a misleading omission.

I tend to think it is, but others - like your retailers - clearly think not.  It's not written down in law anywhere that a furniture retailer must tell you a maximum weight limit of furniture if there is one.  What the law says is that they can't mislead you into buying something by not telling you soemthing that would affect your decision whether or not to buy.

So you need to construct an argument to put to the retailer to persuade them that by not telling you that there was a weight limit, they made a misleading omission whci led you to make a purcahsing decision that you would not have made if you had been told of the weight limit.

Obviously you would not have bought it if you'd known you were too heavy for it, but the retailer may argue that if you are unusually heavy, then you should have enquired of them before purchase if it would support your weight, in which case they would have told you "No".

As I said in my previous post, I wouldn't expect a retailer to state a max weight for static furniture unless it was unusually flimsy.  But I would expect them to state a max weight limit for a recliner with moving mechanical and/or electrical parts.  However, if I knew I was unusually heavy, I think I would also check with them before purchase if it would take my weight.

You don't say how heavy you are  (and you don't need to) so these figures are straight off the top of my head. I think you could reasonably expect a recliner to cope with an individual weighing 18 to 20 stone without having to ask the retailer if you were too heavy for it.  But beyond that it gets more complicated.  Certainly if I weighed over 25 stone I think I'd want to ask the retailer beforehand if it would take my weight.

Wait and see what @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head suggests*.  They are good at drafting emails and arguments to put to retailers in this sort of situation


Footnote 1  - actually reading your suggested telephone script again, I think it's quite good.  I would just amend the bit about " the law clearly stating that they have to state the max weight limit".  What the law says is that they can't make a misleadnig omission - what you need to persuade them is that not telling you that there was a max weight limit is a misleading omission.  The law is not black and white but try the argument and see how it goes.

Come back with an update 

You could also point them to the relevant regulation which is para 6(1) here:  The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (legislation.gov.uk)

TELLIT01

My concern is that if the OP tries to argue about paying the return cost the retailer may get difficult.  Might she be better to wait until the the item has been removed and then act?  I'm just trying to think through possible scenarios and the effect of them on the OP. 

I agree with the OP and other posters that there should be an indication of weight limit on recliners due to the limitation of the mechanics of the chair.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Pretty much what @Okell has said OP. 

The rules surrounding this are non-specific and you'd have to hope SCS just think it isn't worth their trouble for £100 and refund as what they will no doubt say is "good will". 

Front line CS probably don't have much ability waive the fee. I would Google CEO email and search that site for SCS and use the email address to send them an email along the lines of the below (please double check for typos, etc). 

Regarding collection, it is difficult and I understand the problems it's causing you, I'm not sure there is anything in law that could force them to collect quicker unfortunately.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear SCS

I am writing with regards to order xxx, unfortunately the recliner purchased has an upper weight limit and I have had to cancel my order with you after delivery due to it being unsuitable.

I am grateful for you arranging collection of the recliner but customer services advised I had to pay a £100 collection fee, whilst I understand if had just changed my mind you are entitled to charge this fee, I feel that the lack of information noting an upper weight limit on this particular type of product was an omission that altered my transactional decision leading me to make a purchase I otherwise would not have. 

With this in mind I have the right to unwind the contract under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and do not believe should have to pay for the return of the recliner. 

If you may look into this for me to see if you'd be willing to refund the collection fee I was charged and continue to proceed with collecting the recliner on (xx date) as agreed I'd be most thankful. 

Thank you in advance for your time and I look forward to hearing from you soon, 
Sincerely, 
bundly

Okell

TELLIT01 said:

My concern is that if the OP tries to argue about paying the return cost the retailer may get difficult.  Might she be better to wait until the the item has been removed and then act?  I'm just trying to think through possible scenarios and the effect of them on the OP. 

I agree with the OP and other posters that there should be an indication of weight limit on recliners due to the limitation of the mechanics of the chair.

The more I think about it the more obvious it seems to me that recliners should give an indication of maximum weight limits.  But looking on other websites it doesn't seem that retailers do.

Dunno about whether it's a good idea to argue the point before it's been collected or not.

sonearandyetsofa

I work in our own furniture store, and always tell customers what the maximum weight limit is if I think it's something they need to know, but it isn't published on our website and I almost never see this information published elsewhere. Very occasionally on the manufacturers' sites or care information, but these wouldn't form part of the information provided to the customer prior to purchase as most people wouldn't even see that info until afterwards.

I think this specific case would depend very much on how heavy OP is and what the weight limit of the sofa is. The industry standard for your average well made sofa or recliner is generally about 17st. Some higher value brands have begun building to a 20st maximum, but that isn't standard everywhere yet that I can see. If ScS are saying their weight limit is noticeably lower than 17st I think you'd have a good argument to put forward that it's unreasonable they don't inform customers of this before they purchase. In a similar vein, if OP is considerably more than 17st I think ScS would have a good argument that they should already be aware that they require something specialist as they would be quite a bit heavier than average.

I was going to write some more about how odd it is that it's tipping forward at all, but then I re-read OP's post and can see that their medical condition means they collect weight in their legs and hips. That means their weight distribution when they recline is very much outside of what the manufacturers were expecting when they designed and built it. Sofas that aren't specifically made for a medical purpose are designed using various assumptions about the size and shape of the person who will be using them, and unfortunately if your body shape and/or size lies far outside of the average you can find they're not suitable for you. It wouldn't be ScS's fault for not stating that the sofa isn't suitable for someone in OP's specific circumstances when their situation is quite unusual.

There is absolutely no harm in asking ScS for a goodwill gesture, but I'd highly recommend making a visit to a physical store to test your next sofa out before making a decision. I do not think you'll be able to find the information you need to choose a suitable sofa just by looking online.

Okell

sonearandyetsofa said:

...I think this specific case would depend very much on how heavy OP is and what the weight limit of the sofa is. The industry standard for your average well made sofa or recliner is generally about 17st. Some higher value brands have begun building to a 20st maximum, but that isn't standard everywhere yet that I can see. If ScS are saying their weight limit is noticeably lower than 17st I think you'd have a good argument to put forward that it's unreasonable they don't inform customers of this before they purchase. In a similar vein, if OP is considerably more than 17st I think ScS would have a good argument that they should already be aware that they require something specialist as they would be quite a bit heavier than average...

The bit I've highlighted is what I was trying to say but you've expressed it more clearly!

I suppose I'm a bit surprised that the standard industry max is as low as 17 stone.

sonearandyetsofa said:

... I was going to write some more about how odd it is that it's tipping forward at all, but then I re-read OP's post and can see that their medical condition means they collect weight in their legs and hips. That means their weight distribution when they recline is very much outside of what the manufacturers were expecting when they designed and built it. Sofas that aren't specifically made for a medical purpose are designed using various assumptions about the size and shape of the person who will be using them, and unfortunately if your body shape and/or size lies far outside of the average you can find they're not suitable for you. It wouldn't be ScS's fault for not stating that the sofa isn't suitable for someone in OP's specific circumstances when their situation is quite unusual...

I wondered about this as well.  It's obviously the OP's body shape and weight distribution brought about by her medical condition that causes the problem as her centre of gravity moves outside the base.  I agree that that isn't something the seller can be blamed for.

However, the OP has still bought a recliner that she is too heavy for and would not have bought if she'd been advised of the limit.

It depends very much on the Op's actual weight (and whether it's high enough for her to make this requirement known to the seller) or whether the recliner's maximum weight is unusually low for that type of product and therefore ought to be made available to prospective buyers

sonearandyetsofa said:

... There is absolutely no harm in asking ScS for a goodwill gesture, but I'd highly recommend making a visit to a physical store to test your next sofa out before making a decision. I do not think you'll be able to find the information you need to choose a suitable sofa just by looking online.

Absolutely worth putting the argument to ScS.  Nothing to lose.

I also wondered whether for her next purchase the OP should be looking for a specialist provider?  I used to work in the NHS and I know that for certain groups of patients we needed specialist suppliers of this sort of furniture.

I don't know if the OP is under the care of an Occupational Therapist or a Physiotherapist, but they might be able to assist in choosing suitable item.

PHK

sonearandyetsofa said:

I work in our own furniture store, and always tell customers what the maximum weight limit is if I think it's something they need to know, but it isn't published on our website and I almost never see this information published elsewhere. Very occasionally on the manufacturers' sites or care information, but these wouldn't form part of the information provided to the customer prior to purchase as most people wouldn't even see that info until afterwards.

I think this specific case would depend very much on how heavy OP is and what the weight limit of the sofa is. The industry standard for your average well made sofa or recliner is generally about 17st. Some higher value brands have begun building to a 20st maximum, but that isn't standard everywhere yet that I can see. If ScS are saying their weight limit is noticeably lower than 17st I think you'd have a good argument to put forward that it's unreasonable they don't inform customers of this before they purchase. In a similar vein, if OP is considerably more than 17st I think ScS would have a good argument that they should already be aware that they require something specialist as they would be quite a bit heavier than average.

I was going to write some more about how odd it is that it's tipping forward at all, but then I re-read OP's post and can see that their medical condition means they collect weight in their legs and hips. That means their weight distribution when they recline is very much outside of what the manufacturers were expecting when they designed and built it. Sofas that aren't specifically made for a medical purpose are designed using various assumptions about the size and shape of the person who will be using them, and unfortunately if your body shape and/or size lies far outside of the average you can find they're not suitable for you. It wouldn't be ScS's fault for not stating that the sofa isn't suitable for someone in OP's specific circumstances when their situation is quite unusual.

There is absolutely no harm in asking ScS for a goodwill gesture, but I'd highly recommend making a visit to a physical store to test your next sofa out before making a decision. I do not think you'll be able to find the information you need to choose a suitable sofa just by looking online.

You make a good point. I think the OP is in the realms of needing a specific medical support chair due to the distribution of the weight. Normal furniture is sold for a person to relax with their feet up,  not for legs which have a medical condition to be level with the hips. Recliners are not weight bearing. 

I think the question of suitability is now a little more complex. 

OP, did you tell the retailer what you wanted the recliner for? 

Okell

@PHK -  I'm inclined to agree that the OP might ideally need a specialist product from a specialist supplier.  Although I note she has had two previous recliners - presumably ordinary recliners and presumably without any problems.

The fact remains though that she bought a recliner where the maximum user weight is 20kg below her bodyweight (regardless of how it's distributed) and that if she'd known there was a max weight limit she would not have decided to buy that recliner.  Personally I think that sort of info ought to be made available to prospective purchasers as a matter of course before purchase.

I suspect it might come down to two questions:  first, is the max weight for this recliner unusually low compared to the industry standard in which case it ought to be stated on the website; or second, is the OP's weight so heavy that she ought reasonably have enquired of ScS whether it would take her weight.

I'm still interested that she's had satisfactory recliners before.  Wonder why this one is different?

bundly

Thank you for your message DullGreyGuy. I'm not going to get into specifics about my weight as it's irrelevant to the issue.

My complaint is not that the weight limit for the sofa is too low. It is that they did not disclose that there was a weight limit at all until after it was delivered to me. Had I known then obviously I would not have bought it.

If a piece of furniture has a maximum safe weight, by law it has to be clearly stated on the sales page.

Armed with this new information I rang and spoke to a manager this time and he has refunded me the £99 and given me a date for collection. They will refund me in full.

 

eskbanker

bundly said:

If a piece of furniture has a maximum safe weight, by law it has to be clearly stated on the sales page.

Armed with this new information I rang and spoke to a manager this time and he has refunded me the £99 and given me a date for collection. They will refund me in full.

Glad you got a result, but, in terms of the bolded wording, the law does undoubtedly require traders to convey all material information, but I don't believe it's been conclusively established that a weight limit necessarily passes that threshold, even though it's all academic in this case now.