Advice For Condensation Over Winter

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

bigbadphil said:

Heating has been on quite a bit this winter and is slowly being reduced due to the weather. Our heating seems to fluctuate as before we put it on the house is cold, then after an hour or so of it being on its like a furnace. Once off, you can feel the chill in the air. Saying it, i suspect that the ventilation in the house is probably not too bad. 

Looked at a few different dehumidifiers. I am drawn towards the LOGIK L20DH19 Dehumidifier. Reviews look good, airflow looks great compared to others I have read up about in Currys and the price looks affordable. 

Our house is similar in that the heat goes off and the place gets cold, ideally you want that heat to stay in the building for as long as possible so you are burning less fuel (whether fire, gas, oil, electric) whilst keeping a level temperature and plugging the drafts is one way to do this. 

Insulation is the other way, if your loft isn't converted to a living space 300mm thickness of rockwall (the big rolls of loft insulation you can buy everywhere) will make a difference and, although an unpleasant job, can be done DIY, just fill 150mm between the ceiling joists and then lay the other 150mm at a right angle whilst leave space at the eaves for ventilation.  

If you want loft storage space you can use loft legs to raise the flooring, again not the most pleasant job but can be done DIY to save costs. That said I'm coming to the conclusion the stuff in the loft just sits there, rots and then goes to the dump, apart from the X-mas decorations is it wiser to just cut out the storage part and just dump the stuff? 

@FreeBear is best to tell you about insulating walls. 

We find the upstairs of our house is pretty good, downstairs in painfully cold, probably should have insulated the concrete floors but too late for that now. 

In terms of dehumidifiers I've been considering this one:

https://www.costway.co.uk/63l-commercial-dehumidifier-with-24h-timer-and-auto-defrost-grey.html

which might be overkill to be fair. 

MattMattMattUK

bigbadphil said:

Bathroom does not have a fan in so steam from showers has to go somewhere. 

Are you renting or is it your own home? If it is your own home then fit one, if you are reasonably competent you should be able to do it yourself if you can go up through the ceiling and vent out into the eaves, if you need to go through the wall or the electrics are not easily accessible then you would need to get someone in. Doing it yourself should cost £100-200, getting someone in might be £300-500. If you are renting then ask your landlord, any decent landlord will agree as it helps keep their property in good condition.

A normal shower (non-power/pumped) will release around 1.5 litres of water as moisture in the air per ten minutes of operation.

bigbadphil said:

Washing machine is on pretty much every day with washing hung up on the landing (top of the stairs).

This could be releasing 3-10 litres of water per day, so it is a significant amount.

bigbadphil said:

Apologies, dehumidifier wasn't an electric one. I should of been more clear. We have had the cheap plastic ones from the bargain stores and we have had the ore expensive ones from unibond. Ideally, I don't really want to resort in having an electric one running all the time. I would rather try and sort the problem out permanently. 

Electric compressor dehumidifiers are far better than desiccant dehumidifiers and over a sustained period they are far cheaper to run as well. They are a permanent solution to the way you are living, the other alternative solution is a tumble dryer which will cost more to buy, cost more to run and damages clothes, or you dry the clothes outside, which with our climate is not a year round option. 

bigbadphil

MattMattMattUK said:

bigbadphil said:

Bathroom does not have a fan in so steam from showers has to go somewhere. 

Are you renting or is it your own home? If it is your own home then fit one, if you are reasonably competent you should be able to do it yourself if you can go up through the ceiling and vent out into the eaves, if you need to go through the wall or the electrics are not easily accessible then you would need to get someone in. Doing it yourself should cost £100-200, getting someone in might be £300-500. If you are renting then ask your landlord, any decent landlord will agree as it helps keep their property in good condition.

A normal shower (non-power/pumped) will release around 1.5 litres of water as moisture in the air per ten minutes of operation.

bigbadphil said:

Washing machine is on pretty much every day with washing hung up on the landing (top of the stairs).

This could be releasing 3-10 litres of water per day, so it is a significant amount.

bigbadphil said:

Apologies, dehumidifier wasn't an electric one. I should of been more clear. We have had the cheap plastic ones from the bargain stores and we have had the ore expensive ones from unibond. Ideally, I don't really want to resort in having an electric one running all the time. I would rather try and sort the problem out permanently. 

Electric compressor dehumidifiers are far better than desiccant dehumidifiers and over a sustained period they are far cheaper to run as well. They are a permanent solution to the way you are living, the other alternative solution is a tumble dryer which will cost more to buy, cost more to run and damages clothes, or you dry the clothes outside, which with our climate is not a year round option. 

Thanks for your reply, it really helps a lot. 

I do own my own home and I would say I am pretty confident when it comes to DIY so It may be a solution for the near future. We fitted our bathroom ourselves so I know the ceiling is lowered and has direct access to the loft above. We are mid terrace so is it ok to vent out under the gutter? (I'm not up on the terminology of roofing speak so don't want to make myself look silly haaa. Eaves?)

A dehumidifier is the way I am going to go in the mean time. Until I can figure out a way to vent the bathroom.

Thanks for all your help

sk2402005

If your house wildly swings from hot to cold, it would suggest your central heating water temperature is far too high, set it lower, and the end result will be that the heating runs for much longer durations and teh temperature of the rooms will be more stable.

If you have thermostatic valves it migth be those are set too high, typically they would be set at 2 or 3.

Your big problem is drying clothes in the house, this is probably a good bulk of your problem. i would get a heat pump tumble dryer,or dry the clothes in a room with a proper dehumidifuer (with the door closed)

In terms or airing the house, make sure you open windows either side of the house for say 30 mins at a time, making sure the airflow is across the house.

FreeBear

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said: @FreeBear is best to tell you about insulating walls.

I'm no expert.

Windows - If the frames are in good condition, it is possible to replace the sealed units with modern low E ones - Replaced a sealed unit in the kitchen a couple of years back (they were installed some 15 years ago). Don't get anywhere near as much condensation forming on that piece of glass compared to the others in the kitchen. All other windows & doors have been replaced in the last 2-3 years. Expensive, but worth it for the energy savings & lack of cold draughts.

Slowly insulating the solid brick walls upstairs by way of adding ~75mm of Celotex on the inside. The loss of floor space is not noticeable, even in the smallest room. It has got rid of condensation on the walls, and only get a very small amount forming on the (new) windows. Doing the work myself to keep costs down at the expense of speed.

It would be worth your while seeing if you can get insulation fitted under the current ECO scheme - The work would be completed a lot faster and with less disruption. With a solid brick construction, you need to use appropriate materials (cork or wood fibre with a lime finish) rather than stuff like EPS/XPS or PUR/PIR. This will limit the amount of moisture trapped in the walls and prevent other problems developing unseen. However, I do not know if any of the ECO contractors would use the right materials or just go for the cheapest they can get away with. If you can get ECO funding, they would also look at ventilation.

In the meantime, you need to reduce the amount of moisture being generated - Getting an extractor fan fitted in the kitchen & bathroom shouldn't cost too much, and will help in those two areas. Hang washing outside and/or invest in a tumble drier - The former is free if you have the space, but is dependent on fair weather. The latter will push up your electricity bill.

MattMattMattUK

bigbadphil said:

MattMattMattUK said:

bigbadphil said:

Bathroom does not have a fan in so steam from showers has to go somewhere. 

Are you renting or is it your own home? If it is your own home then fit one, if you are reasonably competent you should be able to do it yourself if you can go up through the ceiling and vent out into the eaves, if you need to go through the wall or the electrics are not easily accessible then you would need to get someone in. Doing it yourself should cost £100-200, getting someone in might be £300-500. If you are renting then ask your landlord, any decent landlord will agree as it helps keep their property in good condition.

A normal shower (non-power/pumped) will release around 1.5 litres of water as moisture in the air per ten minutes of operation.

bigbadphil said:

Washing machine is on pretty much every day with washing hung up on the landing (top of the stairs).

This could be releasing 3-10 litres of water per day, so it is a significant amount.

bigbadphil said:

Apologies, dehumidifier wasn't an electric one. I should of been more clear. We have had the cheap plastic ones from the bargain stores and we have had the ore expensive ones from unibond. Ideally, I don't really want to resort in having an electric one running all the time. I would rather try and sort the problem out permanently. 

Electric compressor dehumidifiers are far better than desiccant dehumidifiers and over a sustained period they are far cheaper to run as well. They are a permanent solution to the way you are living, the other alternative solution is a tumble dryer which will cost more to buy, cost more to run and damages clothes, or you dry the clothes outside, which with our climate is not a year round option. 

Thanks for your reply, it really helps a lot. 

I do own my own home and I would say I am pretty confident when it comes to DIY so It may be a solution for the near future. We fitted our bathroom ourselves so I know the ceiling is lowered and has direct access to the loft above. We are mid terrace so is it ok to vent out under the gutter? (I'm not up on the terminology of roofing speak so don't want to make myself look silly haaa. Eaves?)

It depends on the exact construction of the loft, but essentially the insulation is between the house and the loft, the loft is generally freely ventilated, but you do not want to pump warm damp air onto cold insulation, so generally in the vented area where the loft meets the walls there is an area you can vent through, usually plastic, which is a lot easier than going through a wall, I think those bits are called soffits. 

bigbadphil said:

A dehumidifier is the way I am going to go in the mean time. Until I can figure out a way to vent the bathroom.

Thanks for all your help

If you are going to keep drying laundry indoors then the dehumidifier is the long term solution as well, they really are good though, they cost pennies an hour to run and will get rid of the condensation problems, but be prepared to pay £150-200 upfront for a reasonable ones, the Meaco models are good, I have one and bought one for my mum and sister and it sorted their laundry drying issues. 

moneysaver1978

The small static dehumidifier are really more for the cupboards.

While we got https://amzn.eu/d/8bSrsQw sometime in November 2023, it has made a big difference for us already. The ioniser itself is meant to help with allergies which I think helped but unsure if it was just the air being a bit dryer or the filter itself. You don't need to run it 24/7 - we use it only when we notice humidity increases or when we have a shower.

Do you have humidity meters? Might be worth getting a hygrometer (humidity meters) - cheap ones like https://amzn.eu/d/5F88Tmh while not fully accurate at least gives you a rough idea of what action (shower, laundry, temperature, etc.) causes the spike in humidity.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

In terms of bathroom extraction, ours goes out through the roof, builder took out 1 tile and replaced it with an inconspicuous vent tile, probably beyond DIY but I assumed that was the correct way to do it rather than through the eaves? 

moneysaver1978

FreeBear said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said: @FreeBear is best to tell you about insulating walls.

I'm no expert.

Windows - If the frames are in good condition, it is possible to replace the sealed units with modern low E ones - Replaced a sealed unit in the kitchen a couple of years back (they were installed some 15 years ago). Don't get anywhere near as much condensation forming on that piece of glass compared to the others in the kitchen. All other windows & doors have been replaced in the last 2-3 years. Expensive, but worth it for the energy savings & lack of cold draughts.

Slowly insulating the solid brick walls upstairs by way of adding ~75mm of Celotex on the inside. The loss of floor space is not noticeable, even in the smallest room. It has got rid of condensation on the walls, and only get a very small amount forming on the (new) windows. Doing the work myself to keep costs down at the expense of speed.

It would be worth your while seeing if you can get insulation fitted under the current ECO scheme - The work would be completed a lot faster and with less disruption. With a solid brick construction, you need to use appropriate materials (cork or wood fibre with a lime finish) rather than stuff like EPS/XPS or PUR/PIR. This will limit the amount of moisture trapped in the walls and prevent other problems developing unseen. However, I do not know if any of the ECO contractors would use the right materials or just go for the cheapest they can get away with. If you can get ECO funding, they would also look at ventilation.

In the meantime, you need to reduce the amount of moisture being generated - Getting an extractor fan fitted in the kitchen & bathroom shouldn't cost too much, and will help in those two areas. Hang washing outside and/or invest in a tumble drier - The former is free if you have the space, but is dependent on fair weather. The latter will push up your electricity bill.

@FreeBear are you talking about the seals between the door frame and wall or the rubber seal (window gasket)?

bigbadphil

Just FYI, we do have a tumble dryer. Which we use for socks, underwear, towels & things that can go in there. We don’t put everything in there. Clothes like jeans, jumpers, tshirts and shrinkabke stuff don’t go in there. Even on half heat. 

I’m pretty sure we have some form of insulation between the bricks. When we drilled through the house vents, I could see yellowish fluff and presumed that was the insulation. 

Some rooms haven’t been decorated for years. Particularly our bedroom. So the wallpaper seems to absorb moisture. (It’s lining paper). 

Main things are the beds and other linen. Just seems cold/damp to the touch. It’s not wet. And has a musty smell. 

Definitely going to get a dehumidifier. When summer comes, things seem to improve.