Energy prices £250 cheaper a year - my electric only £8.83 cheaper??

Chris_b2z

matt_drummer said:

Chris_b2z said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Chris_b2z said:

pseudodox said:

Should the people who work in the industry be paid minimum wages?

Really? Bumper earnings for National Grid come as energy firms are accused of ‘greedflation’

National Grid’s John Pettigrew, one of the country’s highest-profile energy executives, took home £7.2m last financial year, up from £6.6m a year earlier, according to the FTSE 100 power networks company. His fixed pay fell but variable pay, which includes bonuses and long-term incentives, rose from £5.2m to almost £6m.

Okay, so we take his 7.2 million away from him and share it out amongst UK households... which account would you like your 26p depositing into? 

Thank you for that constructive suggestion.

I'm sure that National Grid under John's leadership will continue to generate healthy shareholder returns. So it's £7.2m worth spent.

The thing that bugs me is that he stands to pay exactly the same standing charge contribution as @Helen_ and everyone else that's struggling financially or making an effort to reduce energy usage.

Why would he have to pay more for the same service?

Would his food be more expensive at the same supermarket?

Does he have to pay for for his broadband or mobile telephone from the same providers as the rest of us?

I will quote Martin Lewis as my response -

I call standing charges a 'poll tax' as you pay it regardless of usage – for example, many elderly who only use gas for winter heating still pay for their meters in summer. I believe it is a moral hazard, as those on lower usage get less benefit and are disincentivised from cutting bills.

matt_drummer

What if he only uses his gas for winter heating?

Why should he have to pay more than anybody else who does the same?

Do you mean he should pay more because he earns more?

Do you think that the more you earn the more you should pay in respect of standing charges?

If so, at what income level(s) do you think that should start?

I always thought that people who earned more already pay more through the tax system, that's not enough?

Spoonie_Turtle

pseudodox said:

I don't like the s/c anymore than the next man but it is the means to pay for supply costs - materials, maintenance, wages, administraion etc etc. Should the people who work in the industry be paid minimum wages?  No doubt they are also paying the rising costs of energy for their own homes, along with food, Council Tax, water, insurances and all other living costs that we all face and many struggle with.

Given the context I read this as meaning the people who earn ordinary wages for doing what most of us would recognise as normal, decent work, such as the people who do the maintenance and the people who keep things running in the company. 

Chris_b2z said:

pseudodox said:

Should the people who work in the industry be paid minimum wages?

Really? Bumper earnings for National Grid come as energy firms are accused of ‘greedflation’

National Grid’s John Pettigrew, one of the country’s highest-profile energy executives, took home £7.2m last financial year,
…
The company transports the nation’s energy and receives about £20 a year from each household through bills as part of an electricity transmission charge.

So if I did interpret it properly, taking the extreme example of someone paid way way more than most working people would ever dream of is against the spirit of the quote you isolated.

The way things work I'd not be at all surprised that if that £20 were cut, the cut would be taken out of the ordinary workers' wages not this guy's income.

Chris_b2z

Spoonie_Turtle said:

The way things work I'd not be at all surprised that if that £20 were cut, the cut would be taken out of the ordinary workers' wages not this guy's income.

The article is from 9 months ago. That £20 no longer applies. The amount that every household will be paying National Grid from April will be almost double that amount.
I agree with you that industry execs will always keep their snouts in the trough.

Scot_39

To be fair he does not set the standing charge.

He only if anything tells his people to tell Ofgem what they estimate it costs to maintain and expand the grid in coming years.

It's up to Ofgem how they split it.

In reality I suspect board salaries in total add a £1 or £2 to the £368 (actually reduced by £13 next week from current) network costs in the very soon to be £1690 cap.

But as my old dad would have said look after tgd pennies.. - as these things do in end all add up - and as the boss of Centrica recently admitted according to BBC report - "you can't justify" such a salary - referring to.his own iirc lower pay.

But in context - thats far less than the £30 increase in so called policy charges this cap. £37 in last 5 years but £30 of it - just this Apr alone rising from current £157 to  £188 on Monday (Ofgem letter figures - rounded). And that increase to £188 excludes the new debt special £28 (replacing the covid debt special £11)and the ppm levelisation £10 - both for DD and Standard Credit customers only.  So arguably in reality for vast majority up £57

So £188+£38 in £1690 DF DD cap - 13% - £1 in every £8 spent.

If CI forecast and cap drops another c£230 in Jul - no doubt an an even higher fraction.


A lot of those policy charges and debt costs are a direct result of govt social and green policy.

Only MPs / govts can really address that - or authorise "arms length" Ofgem to.

The supposedly temporary £28 allowance to help with chronic debts (£3bn as of Dec and climbing debt review by Ofgem - now ?). Well £28 x 24m - (the c4m on prepay do not pay it) -  homes only covers barely quarter of last years figure. Zero next year - I suspect not  ?  (£11 to Cover covid debt far outlasted any restrictions)


And on SC  - wait to see whether OFGEM  accept the solution you may yourself have proposed.

You know the one that is fair and equitable to every user
-  high / medium / low users,
- dual fuel or electric only(*)
- subset of (*) with electric heating so higher grid consumption
- rich / poor
- low or high occupancy
- young or old / disabled / sick
- solar exporter or not etc etc.

You know the one that doesn't really exist.

Have Ofgem pushed too much onto electric (in particular) SC - I think probably so.
My own up 134% in last 2 years - kick starting with SoLR in Apr 22 cap (88% strp  cf Oct 21-Mar 22 cap) - now rising another  c10% 5.xp to c57p on Monday.  (Lower than many regions - rise and value) 

And as an all electric user inc heating  - who may lose out in a simplistic shift  - I am happy to see that balance revert a little - even if it costs me a little more. 

PennineAcute

Chris_b2z said:

matt_drummer said:

Chris_b2z said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Chris_b2z said:

pseudodox said:

Should the people who work in the industry be paid minimum wages?

Really? Bumper earnings for National Grid come as energy firms are accused of ‘greedflation’

National Grid’s John Pettigrew, one of the country’s highest-profile energy executives, took home £7.2m last financial year, up from £6.6m a year earlier, according to the FTSE 100 power networks company. His fixed pay fell but variable pay, which includes bonuses and long-term incentives, rose from £5.2m to almost £6m.

Okay, so we take his 7.2 million away from him and share it out amongst UK households... which account would you like your 26p depositing into? 

Thank you for that constructive suggestion.

I'm sure that National Grid under John's leadership will continue to generate healthy shareholder returns. So it's £7.2m worth spent.

The thing that bugs me is that he stands to pay exactly the same standing charge contribution as @Helen_ and everyone else that's struggling financially or making an effort to reduce energy usage.

Why would he have to pay more for the same service?

Would his food be more expensive at the same supermarket?

Does he have to pay for for his broadband or mobile telephone from the same providers as the rest of us?

I will quote Martin Lewis as my response -

I call standing charges a 'poll tax' as you pay it regardless of usage – for example, many elderly who only use gas for winter heating still pay for their meters in summer. I believe it is a moral hazard, as those on lower usage get less benefit and are disincentivised from cutting bills.

And ML is always right?

Chris_b2z

PennineAcute said:

And ML is always right?

I definitely agree with his position on standing charges. I also trust his judgement above that of members that constantly push the industry narrative on an anonymous forum.

PennineAcute

Chris_b2z said:

PennineAcute said:

And ML is always right?

I definitely agree with his position on standing charges. I also trust his judgement above that of members that constantly push the industry narrative on an anonymous forum.

Add it to the unit price and watch and listen to all the "new" fuss.

SC is not perfect at all.  Whichever method you implement, there will always be winners and losers. 

Just wondering why people think that high users are wealthy?

username

What they do need is to break out the standing charge  into what it actually covers and itemize the detail, rather than just lumping everything and anything under a fairly useless and generic term, which doesn't mean anything for anyone.
More detail as opposed to less. 

MattMattMattUK

username said:

What they do need is to break out the standing charge  into what it actually covers and itemize the detail, rather than just lumping everything and anything under a fairly useless and generic term, which doesn't mean anything for anyone.
More detail as opposed to less. 

That information is published on the Ofgem website, some choose to read it, most do not.