Charge For Extra Bedroom UC

Spoonie_Turtle

HillStreetBlues said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

*But it would help if somebody could find something to say for sure whether that decision about an extra bedroom does in fact carry the right of appeal, without having to rely on reasoning.  I don't think I'm wrong, but it would be simpler (and reassuring) to have something definitive to refer to.  And you know me, always happy to be corrected when need be!

I have been skim reading this thread so haven't a view on the OP's case.

There is a PDF guide of bedroom tax appeals https://www.cih.org/media/cpjm11dh/practical-implications-of-bedroom-tax-appeals.pdf
Most are appealable but you can't appeal just because a person thinks it's unfair.

So the decision itself does carry right of appeal, the only question (as with all such decisions) is whether it is worth somebody appealing, whether they have a case that DWP have actually got that decision wrong.

But for DWP to tell somebody they cannot appeal that decision is factually incorrect.


@peteuk if OP claims PIP there is no non-dependant deduction, see the Shelter link I posted before.  See also ADM F3

"Renters exempt from HCC deduction
F3150 No HCC deduction will be made where
1. the renter is
1.1 a single person or
1.2 a joint renter and
1.2.a where there is at least one joint renter

2. who is
…
2.2 in receipt of the care component of DLA, CDP or ADP at the middle or highest rate
…
2.4 in receipt of the daily living component of PIP

HillStreetBlues

Spoonie_Turtle said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

*But it would help if somebody could find something to say for sure whether that decision about an extra bedroom does in fact carry the right of appeal, without having to rely on reasoning.  I don't think I'm wrong, but it would be simpler (and reassuring) to have something definitive to refer to.  And you know me, always happy to be corrected when need be!

I have been skim reading this thread so haven't a view on the OP's case.

There is a PDF guide of bedroom tax appeals https://www.cih.org/media/cpjm11dh/practical-implications-of-bedroom-tax-appeals.pdf
Most are appealable but you can't appeal just because a person thinks it's unfair.

So the decision itself does carry right of appeal, the only question (as with all such decisions) is whether it is worth somebody appealing, whether they have a case that DWP have actually got that decision wrong.

But for DWP to tell somebody they cannot appeal that decision is factually incorrect.

The OP shouldn't have been told they can not appeal, that is clearly incorrect.
I have just read Jyana time-frame of events (I tried to keep up, but with snippets of info in multiple posts I gave up).  If OP was only told over the phone there would be no challenge then  proving it could be an issue, especially if any paperwork goes against that. 

With the 13 month rule for appealing, you can appeal for any grounds.  If it's an "official error" then there is no time-frame
This gives a bit more info on "official error" https://askcpag.org.uk/content/208117/official-errors-in-benefits-decisions

Alice_Holt

The Martin Williams CPAG article is about the ability to challenge a decision by way of an 'any time revision' (ATR).
This can be useful when it is only realised later that the decision was wrong, and the 13 month limit for an appeal has now passed.
A decision can only be revised only if it was wrong at the time it was made. If revised the new decision replaces the original decision, so its effect is fully backdated. 

However, an ATR can only be made if certain grounds are satisfied - which include (as the article outlines) official error, and error of law.

The use of an ATR in this case may be relevant, but the difficulty would be gaining proof that the OP was not apprised of his appeal rights when told on the telephone that his MR had been refused.

I'm not clear whether the OP would also need to detail why the decision not to remove the bedroom tax was wrong. So an ATR may need to show:
i) that the decision was wrong,  and demonstrate    
ii) proof of an official procedural error in denying the OP his appeal rights against an incorrect decision.


PS. Thanks to Jyana for summarising the chronology, I struggled to understand the facts / sequence from solely the OP's posts.

ANDY1964

I am not that convinced that DWP even considered my request in respect of exemption from the bedroom tax in 2017.

And for a number of reasons.

kaMelo

ANDY1964 said:

I am not that convinced that DWP even considered my request in respect of exemption from the bedroom tax in 2017.

And for a number of reasons.

I don't see how this is a grey area, either they did or didn't. You said earlier that you requested a MR which was denied, how is that possible if it wasn't even considered.

It would be really helpful if you could provide a full and accurate timeline of all events, despite reading through this thread many times I'm still don't fully understand what happened and when with any certainty

Jyana

ANDY1964 said:

I am not that convinced that DWP even considered my request in respect of exemption from the bedroom tax in 2017.

And for a number of reasons.

Please reply to my previous post and fully answer the questions I have asked in it.

I know it's difficult to separate emotion from the situation you are in at present but if you truly want help from us, we need details in order to help you further.

8dayweek

ANDY1964 said:

Have now contacted the Tribunal services who have confirmed that no mandatory reconsideration letter was recieved from DWP.

I now have this in writing.


Again this would demonstrate an error in law as they were duty bound to send two copies of the decision letter.

One to me ( Claimant ) and the same to the Courts.

For that reason alone the appeal and the reasons for not making an exemption for bedroom tax surely must be flawed.

Yet another example of DWP making decision that are only relevant in principle to them and not those who are minded to consider legitimate appeals, the Tribunal who are in no way aware of the MR decision made in 2018.

Maybe the DWP feel they are a law within themselves and unlike everyone else, they need not follow the needed procedures as to deny someone with two disabilities any rights he or she has to be exempted by paying a tax that more likely than not would not be chargeable in any event. 

I’m confused as to why you think DWP should have sent the MRN to HMCTS? The MRN is issued to you - and details how to Appeal. 

If you lodge an Appeal with HMCTS then at some point DWP will prepare a bundle, and a copy is sent to HMCTS and a copy to you (or your Rep). 

DWP don’t send a copy of every MRN to HMCTS in case someone lodges an Appeal?

ANDY1964

8dayweek said:

ANDY1964 said:

Have now contacted the Tribunal services who have confirmed that no mandatory reconsideration letter was recieved from DWP.

I now have this in writing.


Again this would demonstrate an error in law as they were duty bound to send two copies of the decision letter.

One to me ( Claimant ) and the same to the Courts.

For that reason alone the appeal and the reasons for not making an exemption for bedroom tax surely must be flawed.

Yet another example of DWP making decision that are only relevant in principle to them and not those who are minded to consider legitimate appeals, the Tribunal who are in no way aware of the MR decision made in 2018.

Maybe the DWP feel they are a law within themselves and unlike everyone else, they need not follow the needed procedures as to deny someone with two disabilities any rights he or she has to be exempted by paying a tax that more likely than not would not be chargeable in any event. 

I’m confused as to why you think DWP should have sent the MRN to HMCTS? The MRN is issued to you - and details how to Appeal. 

If you lodge an Appeal with HMCTS then at some point DWP will prepare a bundle, and a copy is sent to HMCTS and a copy to you (or your Rep). 

DWP don’t send a copy of every MRN to HMCTS in case someone lodges an Appeal?

They have an obligation to send two copies to the Claimant.

One of which can be lodged to HMCTS if the Claimant wishes to appeal.

Without a copy of a MR letter the Claimant cannot and will not be able to appeal.

As was the case in 2018 and it is also the case tight now.

I have repeatedly asked for the latest decision to be provided x2 in a litigants manner by way of letter which is compulsory but to no avail.

Again it would appear that DWP more likely than not are in abuse of correct process.

FWIW I have made a complaint to DWP about this.

ANDY1964

Hello All,

It has now been six months since a decision maker considered my application to be exempt from the bedroom tax.

This seems very long tbh.

Any advice as always would be greatly appreciated.

Jyana

ANDY1964 said:

Hello All,

It has now been six months since a decision maker considered my application to be exempt from the bedroom tax.

This seems very long tbh.

Any advice as always would be greatly appreciated.

As requested back in June, please reply to my previous comment. As people here have repeatedly reported to you, it is next to impossible to advise you further until the timeline and certain questions are answered fully in order to give us a complete picture of what has gone on. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80855679/#Comment_80855679

I understand you are finding the situation stressful, but unless you are willing to give information when questions are posed to you there really isn't much more we can add at this point.